Not all buyable systems are guard systems. Empty systems are also buyable, and are much like Vanilla systems after they are finished. You are not required to be aligned to the owners of these systems (usually multiple factions present) to control them. For example Omicron-80 will be Outcast and Zoners. As long as your not hostile to either you can theoretically own the system. For example, your Mercenary faction could own that systems since your neutral to Outcasts and Zoners.
The system you decide to be yours, would be where your ID goes. Doesn't have to be a generic clan system, simply a non-vanilla finished system.
If Dab is right and Igiss would consider making these changes server side only, it would behoove us to keep the changes simple. We wouldn't want maintenance and customization of the 24/7 server to take precidence over the overall development of the mod. Igiss only has so much time in his day.
To project this idea down the road a bit: HF and AW have both selected guard systems and are in the final stages of development. The guard systems are of course set up for vanilla factions. If implimenting custom IDs for established factions happens, we would have AW controlling the Zoner guard system when they aren't even Zoners. Now, if the idea behind the custom ID is to allow factions like AW to distance themselves from the vanilla factions, AW would have to select another system or Igiss would have to change omi-74 to a non Zoner system. If the system is changed, it would no longer be a guard system as I doubt Igiss would be willing to code in AW NPCs to patrol it(I could be wrong though, if he does, that would be putting a lot of time into customizing 24/7 rather than developing the whole mod.)
HF would be in the same Pickle. SA and KNF would be fine if they wanted to develop Virginia and Hiroshima as they are 'purist' factions and don't need custom IDs.
The limitations set on any custom ID would be key to the success of its implimentation. Freelancer has an inherant balance in its original factions and this comes to the limitations of those factions. Factions have specific 'triggers' that promote or demote favor with other factions or players. These triggers don't have to be coded into the game, but deliniated on the ID to give the faction a framework in which to behave. Dab has the right idea in giving the AW a reactionary policy-similar limitations should be placed on any other custom ID.
Simply being reactionary might not be enough though. I feel that every faction on this server should have permanent enemies and friends. I know others here do not feel this way and wish to be totally autonomous, see other players as completely blank slates and have thier reputation be based on PvP and in game chat. In my opinion this is too much leeway. Firebird has it right, as the 'purist' factions have a hard coded set of enemies they cannot ally with, so should the custom IDs. You can write into the AW ID that they will always be hostile to the Phantoms for instance. The Phantoms have a great amount of autonomy but they view themselves as unlawful and have pledged never to help lawful characters out, so perhaps their ID should include some straight up enemies, such as the AW, or "all house militaries" or something else..
So to sum up: keep it simple: add the custom IDs and have all the rules for that ID written into it. Be careful not to give custom ID holding factions a blank check for doing whatever they please on the server. Then address what HF and AW will do with their guard systems some how.
Of course reputation puts more limitations on actions.
It has been pointed out by Dab on previous occasions that SF should not be neutral to Corsairs when BAF NPCs are openly hostile.
Another time there was criticism of the SCRA being Corsair tagged for similar reasons.
Zoner rep says no allies and no enemies.
The question would be then, if a faction has allies and enemies in the first place, should they be Zoner tagged?
I'm not sure I understand what the benefit of new IDs would be and how they would get around the inherent faction limitations.
' Wrote:I'm not sure I understand what the benefit of new IDs would be and how they would get around the inherent faction limitations.
I see the custom IDs enabling faction leaders to fashion their own enemy/friendly list. These IDs would still require the user to behave in a specific way. There must be some minimum political position requirement for each new ID to be added to keep the same level of limitation on all factions for balance. You could make it a requirement that each new ID have at least 3 enemies and 3 allies or more or less (just an over simplified example.) Perhaps it could be narrowed down even to the power of your enemy/friends. For example if you want to have a faction that is hostile to GMG, your faction would not be as limited as a faction that is hostile to Corsairs because the Corsairs are so much more powerful than the GMG.
We could use the table Igiss made to determine the minimum membership requirements to own a particular system. This is useful because it gives each NPC a power rating:
Quote:List of available IDs and requirements for getting a system
It's well-known that some Freelancer NPC factions are more powerful than the others. To get a home system, factions that choose different alignment must have different number of members from different accounts (or different number of people who joined the faction). This number ranges from 3 to 8.
Liberty Navy - Affiliation not allowed
Liberty Police, Inc. - Affiliation not allowed
Bretonia Armed Forces - 5 - Faction system belongs to SF
Bretonia Police - 3 - Must be allied with Navy
Kusari Naval Forces - 5
Kusari State Police - 3 - Must be allied with Navy
Rheinland Military - 5 - Faction system belongs to RM
Rheinland Police - 3 - Must be allied with Navy
Samura Industries - No faction system
Daumann Heavy Construction - No faction system
Kishiro Technologies - No faction system
BMM - No faction system
Deep Space Engineering - No faction system
Border World Exports - No faction system
Republican Shipping - No faction system
Ageira Technologies - No faction system
Synth Foods, Inc. - No faction system
Kruger Minerals - No faction system
Planetform, Inc. - No faction system
Interspace Commerce - No faction system
Universal Shipping - No faction system
Cryer Pharmaceuticals - No faction system
ALG Waste Disposal - No faction system
Orbital Spa and Cruise - No faction system
Gateway Shipping - No faction system
Corsairs - 5
Outcasts - 5
Red Hessians - 5
Blood Dragons - 5
Junkers - 5
Hogosha - 3
Mollys - 3
Xenos - 3
Bundschuh - 3
Gaians - 3
Lane Hackers - 5
Unioners - 3
Golden Crysanthemums - 3
LWB - 3
Farmers Alliance - 3
Liberty Rogues - 5
The Order - 5 - Faction system belongs to Bs
Gas Miners Guild - 5
Nomads - Affiliation not allowed, ID not available
Independent Miners Guild - 5
Zoners - 5 - Faction system belongs to AW
Bounty Hunters Guild - 5
So equalizing the power of a new custom IDs enemies and allies would be the key to balancing limitations.
We must remmember that having a custom ID should give any faction the ability to role play in an unstructured or random fassion.
Enemy and ally numbers should not be a requirement. For example, AW has rarely ever had allies. We have had a total of 3 in our near two years here. HF, SiN|Tech, and IG. Enemies have been more numerous. But we do not make allies or enemies unless it suits our current state. We are like Zoners in that way. We are neutral until someone/something does something to alter that.
Also, Yngen, getting a custom ID doesn't negate a group's relation to an NPC faction. Simply the fact that there is no faction ID that fits them. Even if we got our custom ID, I'd still have AW using Zoner tags, showing our bond with the Zoners.
Just because we are getting this ID doesn't negate our claims on a guard system. The ID isn't exactly meant to 'distance' us, but to show the difference between us and Zoners. It will make it more clear that we are not Zoners, just closely related with them, and not following their ideals, rules, agreements, etc, but dealing with them on a mutual profit level. This ID won't be changing a factions RP, unless the faction decides to. AW will still be the same AW it is now. This will just be showing our true status and relation, not making a easily-misunderstood notion that we are Zoners and speak for them.
Ant, we have had the discussion on whether AW should or should not have the Zoner ID/Tag. Admins have made a decision about it. Stop bringing it up, it will only make more flames.
Quote:The question would be then, if a faction has allies and enemies in the first place, should they be Zoner tagged?
It can be.
Theoretically, there might be 5 factions that use Zoner ID, it's not prohibited by rules if their RP is generally in line with Zoner neutral attitude to most Sirius factions (possibly not all). Of course, multiple factions with same ID is not very nice cause lots of IDs are unused (LWB anyone?), and only one of those multiple factions will be able to get a home system.
Regarding the AW, decision was made. They are getting their own ID. When Zoner ID was assigned to the faction, it was a doubtful decision both for me and AW members. Their faction system, however, will remain the same and use Zoner guard until I'll be able to offer something more suitable.
Number of allies and enemies doesn't matter. There are general RP patterns that can be used for custom IDs as well. AW leaders should think how their faction can be described in similar way as other factions in other IDs.
Also I would like to clarify that custom ID are not new IDs for all factions. They are only new IDs for OLD factions that were here before the ID system was established. All other factions (and future factions) should not consider a possibility of a custom ID, unless there's a very important reason.
Quote:Of course, multiple factions with same ID is not very nice cause lots of IDs are unused (LWB anyone?),
[whisper] Tank, Dboy, Mista Shoultz, and I have an RP group with the LWB. The Scythe. [/whisper]
Now, I understand that it should be factions that were before the ID system, and this may just be my selfish side speaking, but should'nt HF get one also? We are system owning...
I am a long-absent Supreme Commander, Executive Commander, Grand Admiral, Fleet Admiral, and Captain in the mighty Hellfire Legion. I have returned, and am on an urgent mission from Drake Thastus to return the Legion to its former glory, and to claim the galaxy for its own. Only then will I be able to rest.
RP Story (Still deciding whether or not to finish)
' Wrote:Ant, we have had the discussion on whether AW should or should not have the Zoner ID/Tag. Admins have made a decision about it. Stop bringing it up, it will only make more flames.
I also have a Zoner character remember?
How should the Temporary Autonomous Zoners treat the AW if/when we become a full faction?
This has an obvious bearing on possible RP. If we want to stick to Zoner neutrality, we won't have any allies or enemies, so the question needs to be asked to avoid confusion and possible flames in the future.
The AW, by having allies and enemies, are not technically Zoners. Zoner neutrality suggests that Zoners would treat the AW as neutral in this case and is the reason for questioning how appropriate the Zoner tag is.
I was going to have Zoners as friendly, not allied, on the ID and our faction status post. Since we have been protecting Zoners and have trade agreements with them, as well as base privileges, plus the AW defend Zoners if under attack anywhere (meaning if a pirate were to shoot your Zoner char, or try pirating you, we would fight them off if nearby.).
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