' Wrote:A pirate's primary source of income is a trader. Primary would indicate another source is avaiblable yet the very next sentence you act like he has no other source of income. Semantics, but I had to!
Yes ... there are other forms of income ... but nothing that will sustain the pirate. I can move cargo from unlawful or neutral bases to other unlawful or neutral bases. I do this from time to time when I'm within one of the house systems ... and I do this for role play only ... moving medical supplies, food, water and the sort. It allows me to interact in other systems while not actually pirating. But those activities do not pay the light bill. So ... yes ... piracy is the primary source of income. That does not in the least contradict my point.
The problem is ... you just wanna argue.
Quote:To my real reasoning.
Pirates income is a trader. If a trader makes no profit he won't trade. If he doesn't trade a pirate cannot pirate, hence he has no income. So, contrary to you claiming it isn't OoRP for a pirate to leave a trader with no profits; it is.
Remove the wax from your ears and open your eyes. Never said it was OORP for a pirate to leave a trader with NO profit. Just that one of MY goals ... as a Robin Hood type is to make the poor richer and ... to some degree ... make the rich guy poorer. Never said I'd reduce the rich guy to nothing. Just that I'd reduce his profits. Making you poorer doesn't actually make you poor. Just makes you less rich. No contradiction ... but the whole thing about piracy is TAKING a portion of your profit. So BY DEFAULT ... pirating you makes you less rich ... or at least less rich than you would be if you never got pirated.
Quote:As for you assuming I am here to whine and cry to have pirates role play nerf'd. I will direct you to the end of the post you quoted where I clearly stated I think the issue at hand should be left up to the player not to be an ass. Any rule would be hard to enforce. I don't think we need anymore rules on piracy; just to clarify the ones we have. This topic wasn't made to nerf your role play; it was made with the good intention of preventing the lolwutters from being dicks while at the same time playing within the servers rules, thus not being able to sanctin them or correct them for being dicks.
Never said YOU are here to whine and cry about being pirated ... or to nerf pirate's role play. What I DID say ... is that the MAJORITY of these threads are designed to do just that. You just happen to be participating in one of these discussions. Do a bit of research ... do a search for piracy ... I bet you'll find 90% of the threads with "Pirates" or "Piracy" in the subject were created by traders who whine about piracy and want to nerf the role play. Its just the way this forum goes. Traders who can't hack piracy role play ... those that consider us as annoying and nuisances would rather we just go away so they can make loads of credits to go pew pew with.
Quote:You have turned this thread into a flamefest war zone because you were insulted after insulting another person. You are the one assuming people are here to nerf your role play.
Get. Over. Yourself. This server isn't made up of people that want to ruin your day Baltar; quit acting like it is.
How about being a man (or woman) and dropping it yourself? Why are you asking him to be the bigger man or woman here? Step up, maybe he will follow.
See, this is proof you can be logical. I agree 100% with the quote here. Forward!
Turn your index finger to yourself sir. I'm not flaming ... just debating with you. If you can't have a decent conversation on this subject ... I can't help you. Don't turn a mole hill into a mountain. I make one or two comments about nerfing role play (as an aside) and you think I'm on some warpath. You wanna go on bashing pirates role play ... that's on you. I'm just participating in a discussion ... same as you.
I've been reading this thread and have said nothing but I cannot help but comment now.
I am trader and a pirate. I know both sides of the issue well. My problem is not with the rules but the lack of rp and reasonableness of the demand.
My personal opinion is that a demand for ALL of someone's cargo is unreasonable in most situations. Such a demand does not promote the goal of everyone having fun nor does it promote RP. Especially when one party or the other essentially refuses to RP.
As a pirate I never ask for more than 2 million credits or a small fraction of cargo. My RP reasoning for this is that if they never come back they won't pay me again. OORP I don't want to ruin the other player's day and the point is not the money it's the RP.
As a trader I will gladly comply with demands for credits and cargo (even if it's half my hold) with some decent RP from the pirate. I even give more than asked if the RP is particularly good to encourage such RP in the future.
Last night I had an lolpirate demand ALL my cargo, with basically no RP despite the fact that I did not fight back and made no attempt to escape. I was not amused.
Edit: Unfortunately some clarification of the current rules may be required since we have so many players, on both sides, on this server who seem to only be willing to follow the letter, and not the spirit, of the rules.
My pirate's demands are usually dictated by how the trader responds to me. I start off with a 500k demand ... if the trader ignores me and shows no sign of interest in role play, then my demand goes up. If he just keeps ignoring me ... only recourse left is to destroy the guy and take whatever survives the explosion. To me ... its all about whether the trader is willing to play along.
As for trading ... most of mine is in the smuggling biz. Funny ... nobody complains when a lawful demands 100% of MY cargo. Dontcha think (regarding enjoyment of the game) that lawfuls taking cargo from a smuggler should have SIMILAR limits?
EDIT: Not to mention that lawfuls tend to ask for 100% of your contraband IN ADDITION TO a fine of usually 2 million credits. Talk about hypocrisy.
No.its not hypocrisy.Its called the law.Personally I prefer to have the smuggler drop his cargo,destroy it himself,then pay the fine.
See,there are 2 different mind sets here.
1. the lawful...enforcing the laws of the government.
2. the smuggler....out for a fast buck,KNOWING full well the risk he is taking IF he gets caught.
I do think there should be limits to what the law can do to smugglers. If they take all your cargo I don't think there should be a fine but that's just my personal opinion.
I just think the problem that exists is that it is too easy, under the rules, to make the encounter miserable for one side or the other with little to no repercussions for the player who only offers minimal RP or makes demands that are unreasonable but technically within the letter of the rules.
But we face one thing, that if we would fallow rp and nothing else that would definatly ruin the fair play, but to much limits would just ruin the roleplay as well. As for smugglers yes. But in other side, its is much more adrenaline then chased. More risk - more adrenaline - more fun. Remeber one of my best times in disco while being chased by RM.
As for pirate I sometimes pirate for huge amounts of money for special cargo. But thats all in rp to do so. And whould OoRP not to do so.
How not to loose everything - use cruisse engines. Chasing are fun for both.
' Wrote:No.its not hypocrisy.Its called the law.Personally I prefer to have the smuggler drop his cargo,destroy it himself,then pay the fine.
See,there are 2 different mind sets here.
1. the lawful...enforcing the laws of the government.
2. the smuggler....out for a fast buck,KNOWING full well the risk he is taking IF he gets caught.
The hypocrisy isn't between the lawful and the smuggler ... what's hypocritical is to say there's one rule for pirates and a separate rule for lawfuls. People here are complaining about pirates demanding too much. In comparison to lawfuls, the pirate's demands are actually light.
If a lawful can "enforce the law" by taking the smuggler's cargo AND charge him a fine ... then there should be no complaint about a pirate demanding the trader's cargo AND any amount of credits he deems fitting. After all ... many pirates have taken the cargo, the ship, the crew and whatever money/treasure/whatever that was in their possession. Pirates would actually take the ship and add it to their fleet.
There's as much role play for a pirate to demand whatever the heck he wants ... he's a crook ... he's not limited by laws. The sky's the limit to what a pirate can demand from a trader ... and that my friend is role play. But what traders here are complaining about is fair play ... not role play. They don't want to be pirated for all they're worth. Nor does a smuggler. You can say role play all you want when you say you're enforcing the laws by demanding the cargo and pay a fine. But what it all comes down to is fair play.
If lawfuls are allowed to demand BOTH cargo and credits ... then there should be no rules limiting the pirate from doing the same with traders. Role play supports this ... but if you want people to enjoy this game you've gotta give in a little.
' Wrote:I do think there should be limits to what the law can do to smugglers. If they take all your cargo I don't think there should be a fine but that's just my personal opinion.
I just think the problem that exists is that it is too easy, under the rules, to make the encounter miserable for one side or the other with little to no repercussions for the player who only offers minimal RP or makes demands that are unreasonable but technically within the letter of the rules.
// SIGNED // ... the rules here are typically interpreted in favor of anyone playing a lawful character. Rules are supposed to level the playing field for ALL players ... not just one side.
This is kind of a sore subject for me. Several months ago I was pirated in my trader, dont remember who and not important really. But was pirated, good rp by pirate, I stopped paid the demand 3-4 million I believe it was. Money wasnt important had 5-600 million on that char, but the guy after the transfer of credits blew me away, Needless to say I contacted him on private chat, was told "sorry but it isnt agaisnt the rules, feel free to check". Totally enraged, I did and found out he was right. I have not paid another pirate since. I will rp with them but try to run. I will not be treated like a fool again. It is now a principle thing to me. So whoever that pirate was congradulations your breathren will never see another credit from me. I think people who act in this manner are tools anyway.
' Wrote:This is kind of a sore subject for me. Several months ago I was pirated in my trader, dont remember who and not important really. But was pirated, good rp by pirate, I stopped paid the demand 3-4 million I believe it was. Money wasnt important had 5-600 million on that char, but the guy after the transfer of credits blew me away, Needless to say I contacted him on private chat, was told "sorry but it isnt agaisnt the rules, feel free to check". Totally enraged, I did and found out he was right. I have not paid another pirate since. I will rp with them but try to run. I will not be treated like a fool again. It is now a principle thing to me. So whoever that pirate was congradulations your breathren will never see another credit from me. I think people who act in this manner are tools anyway.
For the same reason a lawful can demand both your cargo AND a credit fine ... a pirate can demand your credits and then blow you up ... using the logic that "its not in the rules."
Its really REALLY bad form ... and destroys the fun of the game. There's no need for lawfuls to get BOTH cargo AND credits any more than there's a need for a pirate do demand you pay and then blow you up. Problem is people are stretching the rules on both sides to get their way ... which usually means one person has all the fun and the other guy stands there with a bewildered look as to why they bother playing this game.