I actually pointed out this error to kuraine (when he was writing the IDs) before .85 was released. Disappointing to see a sanction as a result of developer error.
The ID also says 'Cannot participate in any unlawful actions except against BMM, IMG and Miner ID pilots within the Omega systems'. If you'll note, in the Omegas there are no unlawful actions anyway. If that is where the incident took place, then the attack was in Roleplay, justified and technically not contravening the ID ruling. Your opening statement Agmen, that Daumann and Kruger are allies, thus display of lack of knowledge, arguably from Boss aswell, makes this even more questionable. We're punishing valid RP now? What happened to 'spirit of the rules'? The IDs were put in place to discourage ooRP actions, not punish warranted ones, be sensible.
As a former Kruger leader, and pointing out this error a long time ago, I consider myself related to the sanction, albeit in a minor fashion.
Forgive me for showing up here, but I feel this can help reconcile the situation.
The rumors quoted above clearly state that the two companies hire third-party pilots to carry out the attacks. They'd never openly attack each other, as the government would likely cut off any financial backing they may have. Sure, both companies know what the other is up to, but they still need to keep the appearance of being friendly in the public's eye.
As for the "no such thing as unlawful actions in the omegas," even though the Omegas are technically outside house space, the houses still claim territory within them. Take a look at who owns the tradelanes, for example. For that matter, attacking another lawful entity is still, by definition, an unlawful act, regardless of whether you're in house space or in the farthest corner of the Omicrons, simply because the server rules state so. Obviously exceptions are made in specific cases, but as has been said already, this is not one of those cases currently.
' Wrote:I actually pointed out this error to kuraine (when he was writing the IDs) before .85 was released. Disappointing to see a sanction as a result of developer error.
The ID also says 'Cannot participate in any unlawful actions except against BMM, IMG and Miner ID pilots within the Omega systems'. If you'll note, in the Omegas there are no unlawful actions anyway. If that is where the incident took place, then the attack was in Roleplay, justified and technically not contravening the ID ruling. Your opening statement Agmen, that Daumann and Kruger are allies, thus display of lack of knowledge, arguably from Boss aswell, makes this even more questionable. We're punishing valid RP now? What happened to 'spirit of the rules'? The IDs were put in place to discourage ooRP actions, not punish warranted ones, be sensible.
As a former Kruger leader, and pointing out this error a long time ago, I consider myself related to the sanction, albeit in a minor fashion.
Totally agree. I thought, protecting Daumann interest from a competitor is a part of my RP. My traget wasnt the murder, never was. And noone want open hostility with Krueger (hell all day I can kill a dozen of miner if this is my goal). I simply wanted to know the krueger out from Daumann field's. If he understand from warning shoot and dont open fire on me, he dont die. I got more PM and reed more oppinion, all said Krueger and Daumann business competitor, not ally. The status is important because all act need to mirror the politic too. If we are competitors how can it be realized in game if we cant do nothing more than speak with each other, if we cant defend our interests from each other? Repeat, in our team the shooting is the last action, we better like if the target go away and we always let him go (except he got warnings multiple times or he dont wanna go). We dont wanna hunt kruegers too, when we go to the northen fields in O 7 with bombers, we never touch any krueger vessel, just foreigners. And its not started now not yesterday but this is the situation about 2 months ago. So could be fine if we can defend our interests from anyone in Omegas where no government presentation and we, corporations keep and forming the law.
' Wrote:Forgive me for showing up here, but I feel this can help reconcile the situation.
The rumors quoted above clearly state that the two companies hire third-party pilots to carry out the attacks. They'd never openly attack each other, as the government would likely cut off any financial backing they may have. Sure, both companies know what the other is up to, but they still need to keep the appearance of being friendly in the public's eye.
Yes media and good fame is important but when no eyewithnes we cut each other's throat. Need to decide if someone can come to our fields and steal materials, can we or cant we defend our interest. Sure rumors said we hire and send them against each others. Sure I will do the same if I want casaulities of Krueger in the northen part of the system. But this happened in the centre of the Daumann field. Thats good RP and fun if a corporation send a party to his competitor's field and steal as much materials as they can. I plan and make this RP too against IMG interests. But then they are targets, and you must accept it. If you steal and someone catch you, you get your penalty. Or krueger cant come there, because there are clear who own the fields and then Boss made wrong how he came there. Or who own the things dont mean nothing - but then the RP will be low.
Notice that's a field in Dresden, I was shooting lawful miners in lawful house space, because it's Kruger owned. If that's allowed then in the Omegas it should be even more so.
Also, in this case it seems to be asset defense, which the government would certainly permit.
Notice that's a field in Dresden, I was shooting lawful miners in lawful house space, because it's Kruger owned. If that's allowed then in the Omegas it should be even more so.
Also, in this case it seems to be asset defense, which the government would certainly permit.
I'll add a perspective from the admin team regarding this sanction and we reserve the right to change our minds.
Daumann and Kruger do not directly attack each other. As rhienland corporations they are not hostile to each other. They are not allies but they don't shoot at each other.
Our interpretation of the rumors is that they can and do pay other people, i.e. mercenaries, to harry or disrupt the other corporation's operations.
Proud member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
' Wrote:I'll add a perspective from the admin team regarding this sanction and we reserve the right to change our minds.
Daumann and Kruger do not directly attack each other. As rhienland corporations they are not hostile to each other. They are not allies but they don't shoot at each other.
Our interpretation of the rumors is that they can and do pay other people, i.e. mercenaries, to harry or disrupt the other corporation's operations.
Then a fast and final question, what can I do if I find a krueger miner in our mining area? Can I do more than badly looking for him? Sure I can place a bounty on him but I myself can do nothing? The only one thing what I can do now is shooting his loot out before scoop in, but its so.... childish. Any other way to obstruct his mining operation? Example can I ask example military/police forces to send him back his own area (We have a contract with government for the area so thats our by the law and they need to protect the law and our rights, isnt it?) If this possible then all fine (and remain the RP line and have more work for the police).
Edit: What I want, or better to say like to see: Daumann miners on Daumann field, Kruegers on Krueger part. I agree if there is a corporation war or like and we steal minerals from each other - but not without consequences.
You can do what's needed to get him to move up to the hiring of naughty folks to move him along, or asking the good folks to do the same. But no shooting him
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