Mmm. The prices you've proposd, Dab are a bit too elevated. These bases need to be cheaper than a whole sestem otherwise noone will want to set them up. The reason for which I'm on FL, not EvE is that I don't need to join multi-thousand factions, most of whiches members I'll never get a chance to know, to prosper and get moderately rich.
and I said IMG, not BSG, I don't expect ther to be a colonial NPC faction arount. Yet. miners poke their noses into every new mineable field they find = mining bases in distant parts
Been thinking about a solution to the DL problem.
Perhaps there could be a method, an installer, modifying the big mod archive?
you have the basic pack, a new packet is out, weight abt 1-2mb. you dl it, open and select the big file. The installer modifies the big one and voila, no need to overwrite the unchanged.
' Wrote:Wow, Dab, that would cost less to buy a god-damn system then to buy 1 base. What are your trying to frikking pull here?! NO ONE in their right mind would pay that kidna cash so they can have a landable asteriod in the middle of no-where. I like this idea, but what you are proposing seams a bit too much. Remember, this is not EVE, this is freelancer. BIG DIFFERENCE.
Now, I am seriously doubting that it would take a modder to go into say leeds, adn click in the middle of an asteroid feild and hit 'Place New Base' or whatever the button is in FLE and viola, there is your new base. It might take a bit longer to add in trade routs and stuff, but nothing compared to what you are talking about.
Verginix Out
You can only buy one system so adding more is supposed to cost much more to deter smaller factions from buying them. And the fact that you can choose exactly where you want your stations are going to be placed helps alot too. The pricing scheme is a bit on the expensive side, but i reckon shipyards and large stations should have very good trade routes. The medium and small ones are just a place to dock. I think weapon platforms should be incuded in the price though (more can be added on for extra $$$ though):
small station: 2 light weapon platforms + stock station guns
medium station: 3 medium weapon platforms + cruiser station guns
large station: 4 heavy weapon platforms + cruiser & battleship station guns
shipyard: 4 very heavy weapon platforms + battleship station guns
to add on a light platform, pay 50 mil each
to add on a medium platform, pay 100 mil each
to add on a heavy platform, pay 150 mil each
to add on a very heavy platform, pay 300 mil each.
Hmm, but then there's risk of wpn platform spamming. I suggest a limit. Limit regarding only quantity, not quality. So that the platformw could be rather constantly upgraded than new ones built every time.
Now let's see, how a mining station could work...
Outpost, designed like Rochester base in NY (or Yaren in delta) - land (1 square on the map) 200mil
base materiel: construction machinery, alloy hull panels, food rations, water, pharmaceuticals... Can't think of a reasonable quantity of each...
Base construction : another 300mil + 50 for 4 light platforms around it. (one-off)
Commodity no 1 production - 200mil
Eagle production line - another 100mil
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Done in the next release, making profit from the goodies, now time for upgrades
Adding biodomes = 100 mil/each = luxury food/alien orgs/food rations production = another sellable goodie BUT needs fertilizers = buyable goodie The more domes the better and the lower the sold good price.
or
Adding a factory (moving parts, cogs and smoking chimneys) = some industrial goodies = 200mil off ya. Let's say you make mining machinery in there. But you'll need to import raw minerals.
There could be 1 production addon on each base only. So that we didn't see whole bloody orbital colonies flying around.
Now another base is being built, strictly mining. An outpost like Corfu. mining ships stationed around decrease the mineral price accordingly to the miners' number. Price of a miner? a bit higher than the flyable ship. These miners would serve as a production addon. Nothing more aside from weapon platforms could be added. It exports minerals, needed on the industrial base. Then, a trader goes back with the mining machinery made there. And bingo, we have a trade run.
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Now for some higher tech stuff. Like more bidomes can be added and more miners dispatched, the factory can be upgraded accordingly. First it could make mining machinery. Now after spending 300mil, it can produce construction machinery (or any other industrial-grade goodie the faction choses). Makes the demand for raw minerals bigger and their price higher.
The next upgrade is even more expensive. 500mil this time. And we get to make... small arms. more raw minerals needed. But, maybe instead of making 3 different types of goods, the faction may chose to upgrade the production of 1 type of good. Will make the price of it lower while demanding more rwa minerals.
If this construction idea passes, a whole new set of rules will be needed. How many addons, how many addon upgrades, what goods where and for how much at least/most.
I do like the idea, but don't quite get the big picture.
Lets say i want to buy a base in "whereever" and i dont want it to be close to a tradelane. I just buy that spot, after adressing and asking the right people.
Second, i decide what type of base i want, in this example case it would be a medium sized base.
third, planning commodities: How is that done? Will the prices differ from how far away my base is from a production facility?
Then i would like to have medium prices for food, water, pharma, and customgoods, but high prices for diamonds and artifacts, and low prices for passengers, vips, gold.
Also i dont want to sell a entire s**t load of commidities at my base, just food, water, passengers, and something else.
How will that be done. Sorry for this (stupid) question, but i've never build or even tried to build something in FL, im just a bonehead player:)
Last but not Least.
What will the base sell for equipment? is that dependend on how far away you are? or does something else comes in that way? because i dont think that when youre base is build in Omicron Lost, that you love to sell some guns to a max of level 6....
When this will be implemented into the discovery mod... You bet youre ass that ill be online as much as possible to see all the new bases:)
"War. War never changes. Since the dawn of human kind, when our ancestors first discovered the killing power of rock and bone, blood has been spilled in the name of everything, from God to justice to simple, psychotic rage."
If it's a mining base then it needs to be in asteroids. It'll sell the minerals present in the asteroids around it. Here's my price concept: without any improvements, the base sells goods at average prices. Every upgrade improves the production efficiency and drops the costs by 50%. So at the maximum development level, the base sells at the best price posible.
Depending on the base's type and addon, it'll produce differend goods, defined by the base's buyer, it can be anything. If the system is in the omicrons, then it may sell alien artifacts. Sold goods depend on the region and the resources in the vicinity.
As for buying, this works backwards. New equipment requires more maintenance and workers. That means demand for mining machinery, food, oxygen, water and so on. The more developed the base, tho more it needs. Bought goods will be quite typical. Food, oxygen and such. But if it's a factory, it'll need minerals and machinery.
Distance form civilization should also matter. There are distance calculators availible all over the net, they'll help. Every kilometer travelled should raise the costs accordingly.
Now for equipment...
I believe this too can be done via purchased upgrades. One at a time, first, weapons from lv 1 to 5, then lv 6 to 8 and finally 9-10. Same for capship weapons, sold only on shipyards, first GB ones, later Cruser and finally BS.
A faction buying an equipment upgrade is limited only to the weapons, produced/ allowd by their aligned NPC faction. As for capship weapons... 1 or 2 types per upgrade. like... GB inferno and razor, later cruiser missle turret and flak turret and finally a BS inferno and/or primary turret. Along with the weapons, shilelds work similarly, fighter types of one line (molecular/positron/graviton) from 1 to 5 first, 6-8 next and last the best ones. Shield upgrades should be added to the weapons upgrade as one. Same for scanners and armor upgrades. Thrusters too.
Quint, Templar, did you read my entire post? Quint you just blew up asking why I made the prices the way I did.. I explained it right in there in my post.. A faction can only buy and build up one system. They cannot make bases elsewhere but their home system. As Templar said; with this you get to decide the exact things about your station, including the WPs, location, and everything except commodities and equipment.
These prices, as I said in my post, are this high to keep factions from getting tons of them. Heck, if we lowered those prices by half, IND could buy 10 or so bases a MONTH. I used EVE as a reference to what I was thinking, not as my basis for that thinking. It was to give an example of how I was planning on doing the costs.
Of course, prices can be changes, which is why this is a debate and opinions thread, not factual.
I was extremely bored during summer school today (and will have PLENTY of free time on Monday as we are just watching two movies I don't need to watch) and can do even more.
Price list for stations, extentions, and others. Might not include all extensions yet, as I still need to check FLE to see what exactly can be added.
Station prices are based on size, docking port number, and function. Same for base extention objects.
Credit Prices:
Stations: (By class)
Border Station - 800 Million
Depot - 900 Million
Asteroid Base (Small) - 1.2 Billion
Outpost - 1.4 Billion
Small Station - 1.5 Billion
Medium Station - 2.2 Billion
Asteroid Base (Large) - 2.5 Billion
Large Station - 3 Billion
Planet Docking Ring - 5 Billion
Planet is expensive because I'm not taking into account just the things required for the docking ring, but for the development of the planet, and if necessary, the terraforming.
Extensions:
Pole Extenders - 50 Million, 100 Million for double-sized.
Material Tanks - 10 Million each, 2x-20M, 4x-40M, 8x-80M.
Depots - 15 Million each, 30 million if its holding expensive commodities.
Civilian Towers - 10 Million each, both tall and wide towers.
Biodomes - 100 Million each, 150 million for Dome connected to a 2x2 (4x) tank.
Factory - 200 Million each, 1 gains the base availability to manufacture and sell Basic and Super Alloys, 2 gains it the ability for Superconductors and High-Temperature Alloys, 3 for the ability to produce Optronics. 4th and on gains no more abilities, and therefor costs no money for the 4th and farther amounts, making maximum price for any number at 600 million.
Weapon Platform - 75 Million each, keep in mind a system has a 20 or 25 WP limitation, so I think a limitation of 7-8 as maximum would be a good idea.
Shipyard - 800 Million, 1.2 Billion for double-sized. Normal shipyards gain ability for construction of Transports, Liners, Gunboats, and Cruisers. 2x size gains ability to create Battlecruisers and Battleships. Price is not added on for additional shipyards, making maximum price for any number of normal shipyards, 800 million, and maximum price for 2x sized at 1.2 billion. Total maximum price for any number of both types together, being 2 billion.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Patrol prices fluctuate upon location. Varying prices for pirate patrols because they are located in many different places. House patrols would have set price as they have only certain locations and only certain difficulty levels. This set price is determined by ship difficulty level.
Patrols:
Liberty; ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Bretonia;
Police - 50 Million, Military - 100 Million, MkII Military - 500 Million | Police - 65 Million, Military - 125 Million, MkII Military - 550 Million
Kusari; ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rheinland;
Police - 80 Million, Military - 145 Million, MkII Military - 550 Million | Police - 100 Million, Military - 170 Million, MkII Military - 500 Million
Cruiser Patrols - 1.2 Billion | Only available for Large Station, Shipyards, Planets, or Warzone (Like Tau-31) locations.
Battleship Patrols - 2 billion | Only available for Planets and Warzone locations.
I'll edit in material costs later, depending on my time. Should have it posted tonight, but might not be here till tomorrow. Decided to post this part so someone had a part of my pricing methods to read.
The entire above post is all simply my opinion on what prices should be, and the differences in prices between certain objects. It is all debatable, and I am welcome to constructive criticism.
The prices are ok imo. The home system would mean a cheaper basis in that case. A takeoff point for further expansion.
Btw, maybe the deletion of hostile patrols cold be added? Would cost as much as adding a friendly one and refer only to the immediate area around the base/planet
And I just love the docking ring idea. Planets will however be a whole different league.
Could that be possible for clans to have their own special weapons modded? Maybe it could be considered for level 8 and 9 guns for the beginning. The clan would pay a proper price for their own weapon which would grant them some advantage over the others. This could make the struggle to gain the upperhand between clans more exciting and challanging in my opinion. As you guys mentioned in this thread, building stations and vice versa could be possible for a clan only if they pay its cost. So a clan would also pay for their original weapons which only their members -or clans who they have done deals with for the weapon usage- could use them. It could be open for some beta testing maybe while admins would announce the official clans in the rp server and the ones who wish to purchase the right of producing their own weapons would pay the appropiate fees to own their clan specified weapons.
So what would a clan specified weapon mean and where would it be sold and also who would be able to use these weapons and would this be possible for admins to code the clan weapons whose efficiency would be prolly determiend by the purchase fee? (the more a clan pays the more variable and effective weapons they would have)
1. A clan specified weapon would mean a weapon who has the name of its clan name and level on it. For example, [SA] Laser Gun Mk II Level 9
2. A clan would be able to sell and equip their own weapons only if they have purchased a factory or something else which could be determied by the admins. These weapons would only be sold at these clan owned bases and clan members would have access to them which means although being out of a clan and using their weapons would mean the violation of the rules
3. The hardest point is how to code these weapons and could that be possible to code if so for clans who pay some amounts of money and wish their own stats on these weapons. As I said before it would be more logical to try this project for only level 8 and level 9 fighter guns since they have a spreadout usage and only 2 classes would not be so hard for admins to work on it instead of trying to implement dozens of new guns or weapons.
For example, a clan wants their specified gun. They first pay some amount of money to get the facility to produce it whatever you call it factory or something else. Later on it comes to determine the stats of the weapon they are going to have. My opinion here is if a clan is paying a large amount of money to gain the right of their own specified weapon then that weapon/s should grant them some advantage over other players and clans. The stats could be determined by the admins and it would also be in proportion with the sum a clan pays. But at least if a clan is going to pay money to do so, they should have better level 8 and level 9 guns then the other players have. Just think of a nomad energy blaster, a clan could be capable of mounting them in their fighters as level 9 guns with this procedure. Just an example I give here, since the stats and names would differ and this idea is completely open for further discussion.
4. So, if done so, implementing an advantage for richer clans would make the gamplay unfair? Well, I want everybodys opinion here. In my opinion implementing such a feature could contribute the rp fun with some more excitement and challange. And the challange between the clans would go up, since after some decent period everbody gain the advantage to reach the best weapons, stuff and etc. The idea could also be furthermore improved with maybe clan specified ships* But for now I want your opinions about implementing 2 weapon classes for the clans who pay the fee to own the right to produce their specified weapons and sell them.
* And also if a clan would make a deal with another clan to allow them the usage of their weapons, they would have to post it in the forum before doing so. If you find the idea favorable, I may think more about this issue in advance.
Acutally I was going to add info on things like patrols and stuff after the material listings.
Basically, who mods in the base will be the one deciding on hostile's patrols. Say Outcasts make a base in that Northern Ice field in Tau-37. Well atm there are no IMG ships in that cloud, some BHG but thats it. Now if Outcasts made a base there, is it really plausible that the IMG wouldn't throw as many ships as they could to stop the Outcasts from using it? They'd try to take that thing out at all costs, hence there would be IMG patrols at that new Outcast station. The modder would decide what hostile factions would be there, and in what force. I forgot to add in the previous post that the station constructor should also pay for additional company's patrols, as the faction it belongs to would automatically get patrols. So if IMG made a station in Tau-23's left side, IMG patrols would be added, as would Outcast patrols. But say BSG, the one who would be paying for the base, also wanted Gateway Shippings patrols and transports? BSG would have to pay for that to happen.
Personally if anything should be done to hostile patrols, it should be to increase them IMO, or left alone completely. We shouldn't allow people to delete hostile patrols, it would seriously unbalance the NPC interaction. Remember, a faction can't stop a hostile faction from attacking them, or flying around. They can attack those patrols that do attack or fly around, but there is no way to actually STOP them from doing it in the first place.
About the planets; You are right. In addition to the 5 billion cost for the initial purchase of the planet, you'd have to buy all the space around it, AND you would have to pay for all the materials required to colonize a planet. Even more if its an ice planet or something and has to be terraformed to use it. I'm going to make it cost roughly the same amount in materials as price for a planet colonization, probably 7.5 billion if it needs to be terraformed. But I also think that if another faction wants a station orbiting a colonized planet, the purchase of land wouldn't be purchased from the ZoI owner, or the admins if there is no ZoI owner, but from the planet owner, as that faction owns the space immediately around the planet.
So say we were back to where Manhatten was colonized. There are two stations in orbit there. Say Manhatten wasn't Liberty government-owned, but Ageira owned (Oh wouldn't that make SiN|Tech happy..). Well the owners of Trenton station would buy space from Liberty, who controls the system, but from Ageira, as they are going to be in a 15k distance from the planet.
EDIT: You beat me Kress. I don't think Igiss would go for faction-bought weapons. They would probably end up unbalancing fighters completely, with factions making uber-weapons. If you still want to try to go through with it, I'd suggest making a thread for it in the mod Discussion section. Lets keep this about stations in here, so it doesn't get overly confusing.. This topic is already complex enough.
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