' Wrote:And now that I am sober. and thinking somewhat clearly im going to tell you our terms because I am going to do something exstremly offensive to you Dev's and all you folks who "think" they know we should get.
I James Smith a Man 30 years and nearly 31 years of age who hath worked in video games since the tender age of 14 professionally and non professionally designing and relying on much smarter friends to do programming for him know how hard your job is. and not being paid or appreciated for it. Go cry to Moses.
I know how hard your silly little factions are to run.
I know how hard your silly server is to run.
I know the inherent "ideas" of balance and cuteness needed to make things equal nice and Utopian.
I know how flying indy is cooler then flying for a faction.
I was a teenager before I knew everything and now I know more now = Infinity +1 don't even start with me.. siddown etc etc etc.
I even know how smelly your socks are.
did that offend you? maybe you should consider this in future replies to subject considering other peoples business. at least before you apply some form of empathy.. and putting our shoes on at leas imaginary wise.
Cause if your not in my Skype channel labeled MirrorShare I know for a damn fact you have no idea what our job is.
As much As i LOVE seeing nomad subject pop up in the forums I hate repeating myself ad nausea. So im just going to say it now.AGAIN
Nomad cloaks if they used FUEL of ANY KIND would too powerful. Thats right the human cloaks? too uber. how can i tell? I've been seeing BARGES running around cloaked thier whole routes. MAJOR balancing disappoint folks. Good job.
Also Jump trading.. REHEHEEHHALLY? NICE ONE! Expect that to get worse with docking modules working.
I wouldn't dream of having anything that outbalanced in my faction. you know why? because my faction has a SINGULAR perpose.
We do one thing. sink money (success or fail and from our other factions..human factions) into blowing you up. Its the simplest faction in the game. and were also the most left behind unless its a NERF. you see Im with IE understand that balancing or altering the way things are run system wide is important cause vanilla freelancer is... terribly onesided.
but.. Nerf the thing that's supposed to be a chaotic and terrorizing element in the community? ...Really? or maybe the dev team wants that title god sure knows most factions are terrified of you.
I refuse to buy any "story" where things where "considered" but alas "never made it". Or use a contrived third party system outside what would be considered "the norm" for an ADVANCED ALIEN RACE WHO HAS ONE JOB AND ONE JOB ONLY in game.. to make things dead. For free. no bounty.. just. die human scum.
And all cloaks will do? is makeup for a lot of these "nerfs". your right Im asking for this on merit. so you deal with that.
You prove how we are just as duty-full being everyone's freaking enemy to have to use "HUMAN" methods for "OUR" technology and ill give you a Nobel prize.
We dont trade so we dont abuse cloaks like trade factions are doing it.. we dont mine and make money.. we AREN'T EVERY FACTION THAT EXISTS FOR MONEY.. we want BLOOD we want TEARS.. (not bounty's not tolls not trade)
AND WE ARENT GOING TO START JUST TO HAVE YOUR STUPID TOYS deal with it. you can only.. ADMIT it makes sence. sure stomp around and fume all you want about us saying no we wont change we arent going to turn into stupid little pirates or traders or zoners or whatever the hell you humans wanna do were nomads we DO OUR thing.
We exist to kill you. and i already compromise that by being too soft in the fact that. I cant for the life of me just shoot a transport in cold blood. ...or rpers.
Cant. never have never could i ask my other nommies to try and THEY cant. so maybe where not evil enough? maybe thats why we don't deserve any "extra" help cause we aren't terrorist enough. I may accept that.
Hell I know keepers are a pariah I was one I know they were jerks but guess what..
This is K'hara Cloaks where talking about.
I banned the jerks from my em effing faction.. Myths about "gentleman's agreements" and "blow jobs" in dark alleyways need to stop here and NOW. I want us to focus on one thing. getting better equipment that makes sence for the nomads.
Heres what we should be. in a nutshell.
I dont want missles.. NOMAD MISSLES? that is the STUPIDEST crap ive EVER seen. Nomads have and are ENERGY.. thier CANNONS should be devistating three times that what you flesh-bags can pull off.
Shields? WHO THE HELL needs shields.. nomads shouldent have shields WERE ENERGY.. instead? our hulls should regenerate.. hell take HALF of our hitpoints away give us regenerating hulls and well still kill you for the fun of it? Deal?
Countermeasures? pfft screw that we can cloak and or Outmaneuver your silly metal dongs that blow up.
OR WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO on a whim. (though i have suggested a cool down timer of 10-15 minutes before we can re cloak in other threads.)
MINES! now thats a laugh.. there should be no nomad mines at all.. the wilde might like thier mines cd's and missles.. but thier half human.. and therefore.. need the help. *WINK WINK*
Jumpdrives? What you think the sunpopper took a bus? you think the osirus got its jumpdrive from goodwill? I personal dont care if we ever get a jumpdrive. free cloak with a cooldown timer accomplishes the same thing.
Carrier moduels? sure it would be CUTE to see mammy vomiting up 5 voidrunners in an attack but again i dont care for that mod either we dont need it.
In summary: know your role.
Cause we do. All to well. and i think thats the problem.
I was gonna ask if Nomads using Fuel was kind of a dumb idea until I saw your post.
Yeap, thought so. Thanks for clarifying my non-posted question.
' Wrote:the idea of liquid cardamine was already considered. - if it was not included it was due to time or cause the concept was not ready yet - so patience ( and less caps-lock )
I dont know from where the devs took this information but I was the first one to propose it to Huggie in the moment I heard the cloaks will use FUEL with a drain system. I am happy the devs took this idea under consideration and maybe something good will come out of it.
' Wrote:( just cause you invent it doesn t mean you are the most awesome, very often someone copying the original can result in something superior )
Well you are righ that humans can copy a technology made by other humans and upgrade it, which is leading to a superior "Prototype" version but here we are talking about the most unknown race - the Nomads - which existence and purpose are yet unknown and misterious.
I proposed another idea to Huggi, he already mentioned it in his answer, about the cooldown system for all nomad cloaks.
For example:
- Snubs: Invisible for max 2 min, with 4 min recharge time (recharge time starts after you uncloak! < cant be abused that way).
- Gb: Invisible for 4 min, with 6 min recharge time.
- Cr: Invisible for 6 min, with 8 min recharge time.
- Bs: Invisible for 8min, with 10 min recharge time.
The cooldown system (similar to the above example) was implemented in a mod I found before few years. There it was only one cloaking device that could be mounted on all kind of ships. The cloaking device allowed the ships to be invisible for only 1 min but after that there was an interval of another 1 min before using it again.
@Jinx, Like you said above copying the original can result in something superior. Considering the current balance of the cloaks with a fuel - the Human ships can extend their Invisibility with 10-20min in presence of transports or if they are small transports (for 40 min max).
The nomads could be invisible with their perfect chameleon skins for lesser time but they would not require anything else instead of time.
Being invisible for 8 min (bs) and then to wait 10 min to re-cloak is 2 min less comparing to standart battleship with MOX (10min) which can be supplied and extend its invisible time or activate it any time.
Other idea is with Energy - the cloaks to drain energy instead of fuel. Every nomad ship, depending on its energy capacity, to be able to cloak for an X ammout of time. Then the ship will have to wait until the energy recharge to 100% and activate the cloak - which could be hard in middle of a battle.
One is a dude and a high delicate matrix of digitally controlled light fibers.
the other is a highly efficient and natural ability.
nomads cloak natural ability. prove me wrong also prove me the cloak effects you humans are stimulating AREN'T NOM PINK
So maybe your not...."improving" a damn thing.. your just mimicking what we do.
additionally:
I feel like nitpicking this crap is.. draining my..life away. can we.. like.. get to valid issues? like.. why some folks.. think wilde and nomads have transports. or.. realise we Loose money doing this dumb faction so you all have something to hate or motivate your little make belife drama along?.. i mean Where just poor players on a stage here.
if you guys really want us to tank so badly why dont you just get rid of us all together? If we abuse our equiment.. take it away! im fine with that.
' Wrote:Just because it's fictional doesnt mean it has to be so unrealistic that it's obviously wrong and impossible. I'd rather play in a somewhat logical fictional universe than in a stupid fictional one.
What about nomads gaining their energy from sources such as suns in the case of their ship-form is so unrealistic that it makes it impossible for you to enjoy the game - a game that doesn't really seem to try being the epitome of scientific accuracy itself?
Quote:Please apply some logic to your own thinking before making statkements like this and presenting them as self-evident.
I'm quite sure I have, and if you're confident you can change my mind, I'm happy to explain why I think bases requiring cryocubes from Gallia and the current cloak balancing are things that can be improved, but these things don't belong here in this thread. However, I'm convinced that approaches at solving problems based on inRP logic contribute more to game development than representing the opinion "things can be done as they are now with a little metagaming, so they don't need to be changed".
P.S: I admire your personal effort of typing my sentence over rather than simply copy-pasting it - the typo adds a litte personal touch.
Quote:Duh? Did you play the single player?
Because that's EXACTLY what the nomads did there. They used humans to build their stuff.
Ok obviously you didn't play it or you have a VERY selective memory, so let me remind you:
The nomads built their Battleships with the help of Rheinlanders (and probably also with the help of the infected libertonians and kusarians). A lot of them were probably infected, but most were probably just following orders and had no idea what they were actually doing.
And would you like me to explain why the nomads, and not only nomads... but also you, me and almost everyone makes other people do their work for them (everyone except the people who live alone in the forest cut off from civilitaion, actually)?
Even if it's not impossible to do yourself... you make others do it because it's more convenient, and faster. ---
All the nomads have to do is apply a tiny bit of trickery towards a few people, and they will have hundreds of thousands of humans working for them without knowing it.
Yes, it is a LOT easier for nomads to get stuff from humans than it is for them to do everything themselves.
Obviously, it's a simple way for them to use the humans' resources since they can, no doubt. I don't see though what all this has to do with the difference between fuel and energy gained from a sun. Also, keep in mind that nomad vessels are living beings - they aren't built with a hammer and welding equipment, they're grown from energy and obviously, matter. The fact that they use the humans' resources for that doesn't change the way they work, and it doesn't change the fact that they're not flying around with a tank to fill up with fuel.
Quote:It's very gracious of you that you will allow debate on whether nomads should be able to cloak without fuel which basically makes them invincible because they will never run out of the fuel that they don't require.
Read some of the other posts, think again. I never said nomads should be able to cloak as long as they want and repeat cloaking hundreds of times, as that would be a very bad decision game-balance wise.* I simply think that the nomads using a fuel commodity for cloaking doesn't fit with the lore, aside from the fuel mechanic being very unbalanced in general, in my opinion - but that, again, is a different story.
*But, to be honest, I don't even think that would be a big problem - you don't get to play a nomad as a random troll player who wants to get a pvp advantage, or powertrade cloaked to no limits. They're a faction with high requirements to join, that plays for the RP, and not for profit, not for pvp whoring.
Quote:It's a good reason for everyone else, except the nomads?
Humans build cloaking devices based on Nomad/Daam K'Vosh technology. Those are human-made devices. Devices need energy, humans feed them with energy from fuel, like they do with engines and other machines.
Nomad ships are living beings. Nomads gain their cloaking abilities (according to lore) from Daam K'Vosh artifacts, that need energy. Nomad ships gain their energy for flying, living and firing weapons from suns, so why would they not use that energy for cloaking, too? I'd rather imagine this solution for nomads than for them to somehow swallow MOX or H-Fuel and burn it to energy in their body.
And all that isn't even the problem the OP is talking about, the problem is that - unlike all other, human factions in the game - nomads do not have access to means to fuel their cloaking devices. So no, it's not good enough for nomads.
Quote:Why should nomad players have it easier than everyone else? Because they are so cool and l33t and better than everyone else? Maybe they should spend less time thinking about how awesome they are and how they should get more stuff for free, and more time thinking about how they play they game and fit into it IRP?
I'd say the Nomads do a much better job at fitting into RP than tons of other factions. A 57-page document of lore tells me they've spent a lot of time thinking about how they play the game and how they fit into RP. I find redeeming those efforts by calling them a bunch of narcissistic freeloaders to be rather disrespectful. Whether they have it easier than everyone else, you should ask a Nomad player, rather than me - personally, I don't think they do.
I'm not one of the old time Nomad players. I got into the faction when it was opened up to the leaders of their main opponents, since we basically know the Nomad RP, having fought them for (literally) years.
You know who Nomads are supposed to be, in game?
Jason.
Freddy Krueger.
Chucky.
Pinhead.
Michael Myers.
The bogeymen that when they show up, you crap your pants. You pray to whatever gods or deities you might worship that you'll make it out of this alive, because you are so screwed it's not funny. They're going to eat your brains, rip your skull off, and poop down your throat - because the Nomads ARE THE BAD GUYS.
What are the Nomads right now, the way the devs have them set up?
Yeah, that's real scary.
Nomads cloaks existed before HUMAN cloaks did. They SHOULD have them as part of their body. It's not because we're trying to be unfair to all other factions and groups on the server - it's part of the freaking ROLE-PLAY of the Nomads in the FIRST place.
How exactly are Nomads supposed to transport supplies? Subvert some Outcasts? That's the ONLY in RP way for us to do this. Because here's something you haven't thought about, I bet. Nomads as a faction are ALREADY a money sink - the original money sink of the game.
The Nomads can't trade.
The Nomads can't pirate.
The Nomads can't mine.
(Oh, and while the Wilde can demand cargo - that's IT.)
They only exist to go out and kill humans. And the PLAYER behind each Nomad ship has had to make the money FOR his Nomad ships by doing that with OTHER player accounts. In fact, the Nomad ID acting as a tractor beam was SPECIFICALLY nerfed in the first place to make it harder for them to gather loot.
So in all fairness - to the Nomads, and to the game itself - is someone going to remove their heads from their rectal orifices and return the Nomads to their glory as the nemesis to humanity that they should be? The reason it SHOULD take 5 human ships to take out one Nomad ship is because they're SUPPOSED to be so damned scary it's not funny. How about having the devs support the role play?
Oh, and free cloak as an natural ability - because seriously, if you're going to require Nomads to kill their own NPC's to make one, you better start making humans kill other humans as well. Gee, that's quality ROLEPLAY, isn't it.
(11-21-2013, 12:53 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.
' Wrote:I'm not one of the old time Nomad players. I got into the faction when it was opened up to the leaders of their main opponents, since we basically know the Nomad RP, having fought them for (literally) years.
You know who Nomads are supposed to be, in game?
Jason.
Freddy Krueger.
Chucky.
Pinhead.
Michael Myers.
The bogeymen that when they show up, you crap your pants. You pray to whatever gods or deities you might worship that you'll make it out of this alive, because you are so screwed it's not funny. They're going to eat your brains, rip your skull off, and poop down your throat - because the Nomads ARE THE BAD GUYS.
What are the Nomads right now, the way the devs have them set up?
Yeah, that's real scary.
Nomads cloaks existed before HUMAN cloaks did. They SHOULD have them as part of their body. It's not because we're trying to be unfair to all other factions and groups on the server - it's part of the freaking ROLE-PLAY of the Nomads in the FIRST place.
How exactly are Nomads supposed to transport supplies? Subvert some Outcasts? That's the ONLY in RP way for us to do this. Because here's something you haven't thought about, I bet. Nomads as a faction are ALREADY a money sink - the original money sink of the game.
The Nomads can't trade.
The Nomads can't pirate.
The Nomads can't mine.
(Oh, and while the Wilde can demand cargo - that's IT.)
They only exist to go out and kill humans. And the PLAYER behind each Nomad ship has had to make the money FOR his Nomad ships by doing that with OTHER player accounts. In fact, the Nomad ID acting as a tractor beam was SPECIFICALLY nerfed in the first place to make it harder for them to gather loot.
So in all fairness - to the Nomads, and to the game itself - is someone going to remove their heads from their rectal orifices and return the Nomads to their glory as the nemesis to humanity that they should be? The reason it SHOULD take 5 human ships to take out one Nomad ship is because they're SUPPOSED to be so damned scary it's not funny. How about having the devs support the role play?
Oh, and free cloak as an natural ability - because seriously, if you're going to require Nomads to kill their own NPC's to make one, you better start making humans kill other humans as well. Gee, that's quality ROLEPLAY, isn't it.
' Wrote:How about having the devs support the role play?
Just wanted to snip this part.
I'm going to point out to the developers that you've supported the role play of other things that don't follow Jinx's little formula. Gunboats with TZ. Not much work goes into a person jumping into one of those and effectively filling the role of a gunboat. The squid peeps ain't asking for much; they want access to the stuff the every other faction has access to. The stuff you forgot to give them access to in your glory.
Anatomy of every nom-related thread:
Op
Random arguments flying around. Supported, not supported, bias, the "i dont fly that thing but i know i have a point", human side, nom side...
Last two pages of/with some well thought out arguments.
Eventual death of the thread with some people hoping it will be forgoten.
P.s.: I am with Huggs and Agmen on this one.
Our Lf atm being just marginaly faster than last version Sabre and our Gb being sub par to freighters in fights versus fighters.
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