To answer on that, I could do some RP and write a request to say the bhg.
They might accept and add the following conditions:
No shooting lawfuls,
No shooting bhg,
May only shoot unlawfuls...
Well... Erm.. So why didn't I just make a bounty hunter in the first place? Would have been simpler eh? I have to act like a BHG now in terms of contracts in anycase.
Same thing with asking a navy, or a corp. So if I ask for gun permission I can only attack that person's enemies with it. I may as well have just made a character in that faction. What's the point in being a merc then?
For me the idea of being a merc is to be.a hired gun, I get employers and go kill who they want me to for money. The whole gun arguement limits who I can and can't attack to the point of making it a little pointless.
If I asked the liberty navy for magma hammers I can't really go claim bounties on say IMG. The only change it "really" makes is I am not as constrained by the ZOI as they are.
As for funding the research. There would be serious money to be made by selling guns to mercs and freelancers as they can't go anywhere else. Monopolies -> money.
' Wrote:... It's funded by governments and companies. And they like to keep their shiny toys to themselves.
Thats nonsense. The cooperations (and thus, their scientists) want to make money. And if there is money to me made (and it is, since the demand for widely availiable, generic guns seems to be so high), they'll start developing generic guns and sell them on the open market. Thats called economy.
Same happens in RL (granted, this concerns small arms primarily), the gun manufacturers produce lots of advanced guns for the civilian market, because there is a demand. Please go ahead and compare a SIG or H&K manufactured civilian assault rifle with a standard issue army one.
The civilian market also forwards development. Once a government has choosen a certain type of weapon, its going to stick with it for a long time, so the only money there is to be made with them are replacements, spare parts.
Also I've to ask the question, what exactely is considered 'civilian'? Technically, the Rogues are civilians. They are not a military force. The Hogosha are civilians too. Same goes for the LWB, Unioners and many others. Yet they have their own guns, even ships. Someone had to develop them, and most probably money is the reason for it.
So why not apply this to the open market?
Wuselkobold in my opinion it is not applied because freelnacers and mercs have very limited restrictions and no ZOI.
Veronee it is up to you if you gonna loot codes or buy it. It is actually the same time lost if you powermine/trade in order to buy it from a dealer. I have never bought any code gun from a dealer , I doubt that I will buy one.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
I can give you one of the top of my head, but you already mentioned you don't agree with it in this thread.
The point is, civvies DO have guns.
Flashpoints, Debs, Goddesses.
Hell, even factions use Debs.
If I wanted to Protect my homeland, why would I join the military if I can buy equal equipment legally?
As Govedo mentioned, you have Unlimited ZoI and can change teams at will. As a result, your guns aren't as good as others.
I for one am in agreement of having 'nerfed' Civvie guns.
I agree there should be more variety in their refire rates and such, but faction weapons should always be more effective in the end.
Quote:The point is, civvies DO have guns.
Flashpoints, Debs, Goddesses.
Flashpoints and PGs are the worst class 9 guns that exist. People know that. Because of that, nobody ever uses them (or at least not many). That means that nobody buys them, which means the manufacturer earns no money with it. The logic reaction would be either to declare bancruptcy or to improve the guns up to a point that they are actually useful.
Quote:If I wanted to Protect my homeland, why would I join the military if I can buy equal equipment legally?
Huh...show me a person that hasn't a brain defect that joins any military force because 'they have cool guns' or 'I can drive pretty tanks there and shoot stuff'
There is an ID for the purpose you describe, its the Vigilante ID. The RP of a Navy/Military person differs considerably from Vigilante RP.
Mercs and Freelancers aren't eager to protect their country either (in most cases), so why would they join the military just to get cool guns?
Quote:As Govedo mentioned, you have Unlimited ZoI and can change teams at will. As a result, your guns aren't as good as others.
This is, as I stated above an oorp argument. A decision the devs made. No point discussing it in a sense of RP.
Quote:I for one am in agreement of having 'nerfed' Civvie guns.
I agree there should be more variety in their refire rates and such, but faction weapons should always be more effective in the end.
Sure implement more useless stuff nobody will ever use.
Even the VF) bought guns from the IMG| because Lugers suck. implementing inferior gear kills variety, and does not promote it.
I won't complain if the guns would be slightly inferior to Military ones, but if you compare the DPS of a Flashpoint with a Hornviper, or the energy efficiency of the Purple Godess with the efficiency of a Buckshot...
I don't want guns that do tons of damage, but guns that are balanced enough to actually make sense.
If it does less damage, it needs to consume less energy as well, and so on.
The problem around is that you cannot look/justify RP in everything.
And there is huge difference between server story/npc faction RP and players one.
For example in server story RP in 4.85 Kusari gained upper hand in war with Bretonia. In player RP if we consider this that way Kusari house would disappear in less then one Sirius year due to the activity of the players on both sides.
If you want to stay in storyline RP civilian mercs would die pretty easy against the house police/navy fighters/caps. In storyline RP you as civilian cannot think of attacking any of them because they have more guns/ships/better equipment and will crush you. In Players RP that happens. And many civilian freelancers do use faction guns that are better then civilian ones, it requires a bit of RP and some services for the faction-it is nice and works nice that way.
On the side I would like to see 4 refire rate civilian gun with for example 450/225 dmg and 700 speed. It will be still nerfed but with some skill it will be very useful.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
' Wrote:Same happens in RL (granted, this concerns small arms primarily), the gun manufacturers produce lots of advanced guns for the civilian market, because there is a demand. Please go ahead and compare a SIG or H&K manufactured civilian assault rifle with a standard issue army one.
I'm sorry, I can't help but nitpick this.
H&K has developed guns almost exclusively for government contract in the recent years. The G36 line of weaponry is the Bunswehr's (I believe the German standing army is called) standard issue rifles. Their advancement in this line is pretty much completely payed for by the German government. Same thing goes for the MP line of weapons, where the MP5 was payed for by the German government as a SWAT (German style, I forgot what they're called) weapon, and later many other countries, including the United States and UK and all that jive. Recently the MP 7 has been designed to replace the G36C in all German SWAT teams, but instead they have chosen to use the G36K. The H&K 416 was also developed under United States contract in order to find a replacement for the M16 A4. H&K also developed the XM8 for this same purpose, but, ultimately, the US has decided to stick it out with the M4 for a while.
And though I'm not familiar with all of SIG Arm's stuff, I'm fairly certain the SIG 522 was developed under a Philippine contract to develop a rifle which shoots cooler and at a lower rate of fire.
So, although these things are all open on the civilian market, the demand initially came from government entities.
' Wrote:So why not apply this to the open market?
You know, this is a good question. Before this tech chart thing, we, more or less, did have an open market. I mean, honestly, it really wouldn't be all that hard to get some Vengeances or Magma Hammers with the proper licensing. But, you know, now we have this tech chart thingy, and we can all just ask for whatever we want, or use Flashpoints/Purple Goddesses. Or, well, we could all use Furies. That could work, too.
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.