Zoners

[bluntpencil2001]

Ships may not need removed, if they are changed, keeping similar background features. This will reduce the need for retcons and ship deletions.

The Fearless, for instance, if slightly resized, could become a reasonably heavily armed transport, similar to a Shire or similar, perhaps with more armament and less cargo.

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[kuth]

Additions to the first post have been made.

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Lurker

[ProwlerPC]

~Allow Zoners to fuse what vanilla Zoners and disco Zoners are into one.
What do I mean? Well, we have a planet and a cap ship line. Neither of which can be protected or produced by anything less than a group which is organized to a modest degree. Allow Zoners to morph into something similar to the CR as disco evolution seems to hint that is what happened.

This part is already achieved in-game, already got the Disco Planet, Armada, Corporate sytem while keeping the Vanilla neutrality. Just need to change a couple infocard dates perhaps but nothing too complicated.

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[kuth]

This part is already achieved in-game, already got the Disco Planet, Armada, Corporate sytem while keeping the Vanilla neutrality. Just need to change a couple infocard dates perhaps but nothing too complicated.

Should vanilla neutrality carry over though? We have the same things the Corsairs and Outcasts do and they have enemies. We have more than the IMG and the CR and they have enemies.

I think Zoners morphed into a house type faction, they'd gain enemies. Perhaps Gallia will fit that bill?

If this is what happens, it means that both Zoner players and non Zoner players would have to accept it and work their role play into it.

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Lurker

[Jinx]

~Make the Jinkusu SRP only.
- i agree with it, - but matter of fact, it is of course - measuring with different scales. - no factions players represent the NPC faction. - so even if 200 players were flying 200 cruisers for the liberty navy, they would not represent the navy as consist of 100% cruisers, - but they would be viewed as a large fleet of cruisers among the vast liberty navy.

no lore ( no original lore, nor original disco lore ) mentions the number of juggernauts build. - it can be anything from 1 to 1.000.000 ..... the exact number is up to imagination, and that is an important part of the rumor around the ship - uncertainty.

making it SRP only has my support, but i d apply a trial phase to it - how it works, how its received by the playerbase etc. ( if critizism and zoner bashing continues, i d see no reason to keep it that way, - if people still addressed the zoner capships as an "immanent problem" - i wouldn t hesitate to make it 100% public again -... that might sound counterproductive, but since limiting had no effect on the public perception, more freedom for those that wish to fly it can only do good ( since it cannot get worse ) )


~Remove the Aquilon or give it to another faction.
i am opposed to that idea. - for two reasons:

- the model is made to fit to the general zoner design. - so - its either replace the model, remove the ship completely from the purchase list or keep it. - but it simply does not fit to any other faction -and i ... as the modeller will not support it, i will rather have it change back to the BSG state.

- it is a carrier ship. it is a warship. - but most of all, i haven t seen any significant number of players using it in any unreasonable way. - so ... we d reduce the fun ( shipchoice being fun, too ) - for the sake of an ideology of faction RP that "some" share - but maybe not others. - many a players can justify the use of the aquilon within zoner limitations. - and are ready to take the consequences, too.


~Remove the Fearless
simply "no"

i am against it, cause i m against it - i could list up quite a lot of reasons, but as a matter of fact - i think the fearless is one of the few cruisers that has for the most part never been abused for powerplay or shooting for shooting others ( too much ) - so that has no support of mine at all.

~Change the Corvo
change the corvo the way you suggested - a simple "no". the model doesn t support it. thats the main reason for now. - also, the corvo hasn t appeared in a significantly negative way in the past.


~ Zoner Border World Transport, Whale
its either a zoner whale - or a zoner dromedary. ( meaning the whale is taken out ) - it was a project to give the faction, which is based on trading - their own trading ship. if zoners don t like it.... we delete it - simple, efficient... end of the story.


~Remove GMG as an ally.
i see no reason for that - zoners / GMG are closer than gaians / corsairs ( or other factions )



~Allow Zoners to fuse what vanilla Zoners and disco Zoners are into one.
in general - what you suggest is a new ( old faction )

why is it not suggested to make an original corsair faction ( no caps, vanilla stats on guns etc. ) or a nomad faction ( old ships ( no shields, 250 damage guns with 600ms speed ) etc.

if you wanne make an original zoner faction - be my guest. you are free to restrict yourself ( <-- yourself ! ) to flying civilian / BW ships - and dromedaries as the max freighter.

you can call yourself "true zoners" and you can harvest the shining reputation of being true to the roots of zoners. - you can call the disco zoners heresy - you can call for them to be hunted down and whatever you wish. - but saying that zoners as the only faction on disco not being allowed to walk from the path of disco - and trying to maintain some neutrality based on their own player diplomacy ( unless it becomes ooRP grief or ooRP hatred of players vs. players as opposed to characters vs. characters ) is somewhat either making a too great compromise ( which isn t even a compromise - its just giving in ) - or ... and i m sorry to say that.... selfish.


many zoners have RPed the disco way - have evolved WITH disco - and how disco treated zoners. - many a factions have been dumps for ships / lore. - zoners maybe more than others sometimes - or more prominent. but zoners have managed. - other factions may have problems with them ( but mostly - they have problems as players, not so much as characters - unless they focus on seeing problems )




personally...

i am roleplaying a DISCO zoner. - i know of enemies, i know of friends. i can see when a character has a genuine and reasonable reason to hate zoners - and when the reason is just a reflection for their oorp dislike. disco zoners are not vanilla zoners - disco navy is not vanilla navy, disco nomads are not vanilla nomads - NO faction is vanilla.

the only reason for changing back to vanilla being - "leave us alone" is .... weak... too weak.

so - i m sorry to say - for the most part - it is totally unacceptable.



edit:

for all its worth - if you wish - make zoners "enemies = all" - see how much beneficial it is for the server. - have zoners be allowed to shoot everyond and be shot by everyone. i d rather have that - than keep neutrality for trying to imitate vanilla.

the above is serious. - if zoners were enemies to all, but were given the right to activly defend / attack enemies ( like pirates can do ) - i d be much happier than cutting down everything that is zoners, ( cause vanilla zoners are nothing )

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Grumblesaur]

Perhaps with the wars in the houses, people are escaping them by going to the Zoners?
Hm? Anyone think of that?

You can't just think with birthrate.

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A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.

[ProwlerPC]

Something like that at least heheh, 4500 people to a couple billion in 20 years will require some nifty infocard work ;)

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[DAnvilFan]

( cause vanilla zoners are nothing )

I am a little surprised to hear that from you.

Vanilla Zoners are unlike any other faction in Sirius. Not even the Junkers have the kind of unique roleplay possibilities that Zoners do.

There is no greater challange on the server than the attempt to maintain neutrality with a host of characters that want to stomp all over you.

[... kur nubėgo?]

Not the capital ships are the problem.

But that strange boom faction conversion which took place about the said faction. Cap ships is just one of the results. It's like vanila faction loosing it's main goal in the discovery mod. It's main drawback, like Outcast fertility or Corsair food (like I mentioned in previuos thread) something happened what shouldn't ever happen. And seems quitea few zoner players likes it that way. Looks a bit like powergaming, no i'm not hateful, but ... sorry just feels very stupid and I start to question "why my favorite faction can't develop like that?". Ahh?

Population growing.. by refugees. Tell me, how you gonna prepere so much places to live ? in twenty years. Twenty years, gosh that's not even 1/2 time of a generation to pass.


And what Jinx said. It seems for the first time I start to feel bias. "DISCO zoner" what the hell? Gosh as a developer you should know that one of the key components of this mod is to maintain the atmosphere of vanila. Vanila rp is source of all disco rp in one way or another, you can't deny it, just becouse you don't like it. It's builded canon which needs much more to turn upside down (which shouldn't happen at all in the first place)

And zoner main drawback was - that they had no planet to settle.

All this thing threw zoner rp out of balance and they are no longer (should) be able to keep neutraility, becouse people would start to recongnize them as a threat. Anyone who is powerful and near you, are growing powerful is a threat. And guns, attracts bigger guns. It's always was this way, it will always be this way, until people will change (well thinking that our mentality didn't moved much from roman times, I'm not putting much hopes in it)


Zoner faction needs to be balanced out. Or get rid of neutrality, or get rid of power. One of a two. It must have a drawback. Same as every other faction in freelancer does.


Just an opinion.

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Omega Pirates Guild

History of OPG | Antonio "Vilkas" Devivar

[Ortog]

How convenient...Gallia invades, lets take all the ships from zoners and reduce them to a fishing fleet so that Gallians can have it even easier.

Oh, but lets cover all this thing with ...hmmm rplay?