' Wrote:I would like a lower drain shield buster available to me, especially when using lighter ships. Say I want to fly an eagle, Cids are not the best load out in the given situation. Other factions are given a choice, why not the Corsairs. Outcasts can choose between Debs and the Inferno, can even use both if they want. The Order can use Cids and Debs (will respond to your comment about that later.) So why cant the Corsairs make a similar choice on lower drain vs higher drain? But I guess you are a believer in the separate but equal doctrine. If someone has something they shouldn't be allowed use of the same as everyone else. Like schools, right? If black people have schools of their own, it's ok that they not be let into school with the white kids right?
Nice try, but mud slinging won't help. You can draw a comparison between what I said and segregation between black and white students in schools, but it's not accurate or correct, and that kind of childish act really takes away the validity of your arguments.
Furthermore, the Outcasts can use Debs and Infernos, yes.. However, the Inferno is a torpedo-slot weapon. A Mini-Razor also strips the shield of a fighter and bomber just like an Inferno. And you Corsairs can use Mini-Razors, can't you? So there you go, you're equal again. Now add on the fact that the Corsairs have more than one shieldbuster available to them and you've got an advantage over the Outcasts.
Also, you're argument that the Corsairs should be allowed a choice between low and high energy drain.. What about the Outcasts? They've got Wyrms and Krakens and the Sabre has a small powerplant. Wyrms and Krakens are both very high energy-draining hullbusters. Should we give them a low energy-draining hullbuster so they have a 'choice'? As has been said several times by several developers.. If we take that approach, everyone will end up flying ships with identical stats, using weapons with identical stats, and there will be no diversity. This mod isn't about what the best pvp setup you can get is. This mod is about playing your character the best way you can that is in-keeping with your faction's lore and roleplay. The Corsair roleplay has them thinking of other faction's technology as inferior and thus, not usable. This is the same stance the Gallic Royal Navy has. Guess what, they aren't allowed to use Debs either. In fact, they have sub-par shield busters that don't even sync with their own weapons. The Corsairs at least have a shield buster with the same projectile speed of their hullbusters, so consider yourselves lucky in that.
' Wrote:If you check the tech chart, the Order is white with the Corsairs, and there is currently an agreement for the Order to use the Cid line, so by your rational they now have three shield busters open to them, more than the Corsairs.
And that is entirely the choice that was made by the Corsairs in allowing the Order to have access to those Del Cids. That wasn't a choice made by the admins or the developers. The Order, without Corsair intervention, has access to a single shieldbuster. If the Corsairs chose to make their shieldbusters available to the Order, that has nothing to do with the Development, that was a player agreement. It was your choice to give them access to Corsair technology, and that means it doesn't impact the decisions the admins and developers take.
' Wrote:Largest choice, yes yes, I belive I disproved that above.
Really? The Order, without Corsair intervention, has one shieldbuster available.
The Corsairs, without making their shieldbusters available to the Order, have three shieldbusters available, four if you count the rarely-used class 7 Rapier. But you have a class 10 Colada Del Cid. A class 9 Tizona Del Cid. A class 8 Lobera, which is quite useful for HFs and LFs.
So the largest choice goes to.... The Corsairs!
' Wrote:As to Gallia, how do you think they would get Sirian guns in rp Dab?
The black market is a rather large and widespread thing Zelot. Furthermore, the Junkers are Gallic spies. And they have the ability to get their hands on just about anyone's weaponry, which they can then forward to Gallia. However Gallia, just like the Corsairs, see foreign technology as inferior and refuse to use it. The only difference is that the Gallic players adhere to this roleplay, the Corsair players have a habit of sweeping it under the rug so they don't have to abide by it.
' Wrote:As I pointed out before, many factions have more than one available to them
Really? Many factions? The Inferno is a torpedo class shieldbuster, not a gun one. The Outcasts have access to a single shieldbusting gun. One that, unfortunately, doesn't even sync to their weaponry. The Corsairs have three, all of which sync to their weaponry as well as codenames. Quite the advantage there.
The only other factions with more than one shieldbuster available to them are the Corsair allies who have gained permission to use the Del Cid line. But if the Corsairs restrict the sale of Del Cids to others, that means no one has more than one shieldbuster available to them. That leaves the Corsairs with the greatest choice. If the Corsairs should have the choice of high or low energy consumption shieldbusters, why do all the other factions have to be restricted to low energy consumption shieldbusters? You want to have your cake and eat it too. You want to say the Corsairs deserve this, deserve that.. But the other factions don't. But things don't work like that.
' Wrote:but to carry on your logic, shouldn't every faction now have an Inferno type shield busting torpedo gun, because the Outcasts get one?
Actually it is your logic that calls for something like that, not mine. The Corsairs have superiority in the gun shieldbusters, so why should the Outcasts be forced to give up the superiority in the torpedo class field? Furthermore, I have one word for you; Mini-razor. Yeah, that busts the shield fully off a fighter and bomber, just like an Inferno does.
' Wrote:You forgot to mention earlier the amazing gunboat shield killing potential of a couple of ships with infernos.
Yeah, now stop that GB from running into cruise when not a single one of those ships have a CD because they all had to use Infernos. Corsairs currently have equal shield busting capabilities and can use a CD at the same time. Outcasts don't have that luxury.
' Wrote:What is this rp you say where Corsairs dont use other peoples tech? Cause as the leader of the oldest sair faction on the server, as you know, I am exceedingly weak when it comes to our rp. Might I point out that most of our advanced technology comes from the Order, and oh yea, we are thieves, we steal technology. I know its hard to see with all the optics and quantum multiplexer factories on Crete.
If you look at the Corsair infocards/rumors/news reports (I suggest using FLDev for this) you'll find them constantly referring to foreigners as inferior, as well as foreign technology being inferior. I don't really have two hours to go sorting through them to quote them for you. There is even one infocard that says; "Corsairs are masters of making something from nothing, and we have an advantage. Not all Artifacts are useless; many we recovered offered insight into the science of ship building." (ids #133192)
Frankly put, as it stands now the Corsairs have the largest choice in shieldbusters than any other faction. They also have superior shieldbusters that perfectly sync with their weaponry. The Corsairs are entitled to an advantage by having four shieldbusters to choose from when everyone else is restricted to a single one; The Debs. Right now the Corsairs have it the best in regards to shieldbusters. Be glad for what you have and stop trying to get even more.
Hominem attacks aside that was a lot of not much Dab.
I read something about two guns being fine, Outcasts having two types of weapon plus an inferno plus debs, some cherry picked and custom served lore and then a long argument about a wide ranging black market providing goods to parties that were interested in securing them.
I'm not honestly sure what your point was? Are you posting ironically in favor of the Corsairs having access to civilian weaponry like everyone else or not?
' Wrote:Nice try, but mud slinging won't help. You can draw a comparison between what I said and segregation between black and white students in schools, but it's not accurate or correct, and that kind of childish act really takes away the validity of your arguments.
Furthermore, the Outcasts can use Debs and Infernos, yes.. However, the Inferno is a torpedo-slot weapon. A Mini-Razor also strips the shield of a fighter and bomber just like an Inferno. And you Corsairs can use Mini-Razors, can't you? So there you go, you're equal again. Now add on the fact that the Corsairs have more than one shieldbuster available to them and you've got an advantage over the Outcasts.
Also, you're argument that the Corsairs should be allowed a choice between low and high energy drain.. What about the Outcasts? They've got Wyrms and Krakens and the Sabre has a small powerplant. Wyrms and Krakens are both very high energy-draining hullbusters. Should we give them a low energy-draining hullbuster so they have a 'choice'? As has been said several times by several developers.. If we take that approach, everyone will end up flying ships with identical stats, using weapons with identical stats, and there will be no diversity. This mod isn't about what the best pvp setup you can get is. This mod is about playing your character the best way you can that is in-keeping with your faction's lore and roleplay. The Corsair roleplay has them thinking of other faction's technology as inferior and thus, not usable. This is the same stance the Gallic Royal Navy has. Guess what, they aren't allowed to use Debs either. In fact, they have sub-par shield busters that don't even sync with their own weapons. The Corsairs at least have a shield buster with the same projectile speed of their hullbusters, so consider yourselves lucky in that.
And that is entirely the choice that was made by the Corsairs in allowing the Order to have access to those Del Cids. That wasn't a choice made by the admins or the developers. The Order, without Corsair intervention, has access to a single shieldbuster. If the Corsairs chose to make their shieldbusters available to the Order, that has nothing to do with the Development, that was a player agreement. It was your choice to give them access to Corsair technology, and that means it doesn't impact the decisions the admins and developers take.
Really? The Order, without Corsair intervention, has one shieldbuster available.
The Corsairs, without making their shieldbusters available to the Order, have three shieldbusters available, four if you count the rarely-used class 7 Rapier. But you have a class 10 Colada Del Cid. A class 9 Tizona Del Cid. A class 8 Lobera, which is quite useful for HFs and LFs.
So the largest choice goes to.... The Corsairs!
The black market is a rather large and widespread thing Zelot. Furthermore, the Junkers are Gallic spies. And they have the ability to get their hands on just about anyone's weaponry, which they can then forward to Gallia. However Gallia, just like the Corsairs, see foreign technology as inferior and refuse to use it. The only difference is that the Gallic players adhere to this roleplay, the Corsair players have a habit of sweeping it under the rug so they don't have to abide by it.
Really? Many factions? The Inferno is a torpedo class shieldbuster, not a gun one. The Outcasts have access to a single shieldbusting gun. One that, unfortunately, doesn't even sync to their weaponry. The Corsairs have three, all of which sync to their weaponry as well as codenames. Quite the advantage there.
The only other factions with more than one shieldbuster available to them are the Corsair allies who have gained permission to use the Del Cid line. But if the Corsairs restrict the sale of Del Cids to others, that means no one has more than one shieldbuster available to them. That leaves the Corsairs with the greatest choice. If the Corsairs should have the choice of high or low energy consumption shieldbusters, why do all the other factions have to be restricted to low energy consumption shieldbusters? You want to have your cake and eat it too. You want to say the Corsairs deserve this, deserve that.. But the other factions don't. But things don't work like that.
Actually it is your logic that calls for something like that, not mine. The Corsairs have superiority in the gun shieldbusters, so why should the Outcasts be forced to give up the superiority in the torpedo class field? Furthermore, I have one word for you; Mini-razor. Yeah, that busts the shield fully off a fighter and bomber, just like an Inferno does.
Yeah, now stop that GB from running into cruise when not a single one of those ships have a CD because they all had to use Infernos. Corsairs currently have equal shield busting capabilities and can use a CD at the same time. Outcasts don't have that luxury.
If you look at the Corsair infocards/rumors/news reports (I suggest using FLDev for this) you'll find them constantly referring to foreigners as inferior, as well as foreign technology being inferior. I don't really have two hours to go sorting through them to quote them for you. There is even one infocard that says; "Corsairs are masters of making something from nothing, and we have an advantage. Not all Artifacts are useless; many we recovered offered insight into the science of ship building." (ids #133192)
Frankly put, as it stands now the Corsairs have the largest choice in shieldbusters than any other faction. They also have superior shieldbusters that perfectly sync with their weaponry. The Corsairs are entitled to an advantage by having four shieldbusters to choose from when everyone else is restricted to a single one; The Debs. Right now the Corsairs have it the best in regards to shieldbusters. Be glad for what you have and stop trying to get even more.
I have not seen any infocard, or rumor saying the Corsairs wont use other peoples technology, and I do have FLdev, and I have checked. If that were true how do you explain the Corsairs using order tech?
Your whole argument is that we have something better, so why even bother restricting us from something you obviously think is worse?
Oh, and I think the Developers had something to do with the Order using Corsair guns, as you know, they made us allied.
' Wrote:I have not seen any infocard, or rumor saying the Corsairs wont use other peoples technology, and I do have FLdev, and I have checked. If that were true how do you explain the Corsairs using order tech?
Notice, the Corsairs aren't allowed to use Order tech without permission except the Osiris. This is because the Order gave the Corsairs Osirises before the Corsairs made their own battleship. The NPC patrols were given those Osirises because there was no Corsair BS at the time, if there were the Osiris wouldn't have even been used and there wouldn't be any Corsair - Order tech sharing.
' Wrote:Your whole argument is that we have something better, so why even bother restricting us from something you obviously think is worse?
You have something better and something that is uniquely made for your faction. Using Debs on Corsair ships gives way too much diversity and too much anti-cap power when coupled with the Corsair's ship's abilities. It's a combination of balance issues along with the fact that having a faction have the ability to choose between two different types of weapons when others don't have that ability also has an effect on balance. The other factions have the choice of Debs. Giving the Corsairs a choice between Tizonas, Coladas, and Debs gives them way too much freedom and destroys the balance built into the Del Cid lines. Guns and ships are balanced with each other. Corsair ships and Del Cids were balanced to be used together. Replace the Del Cids with Debs and you've got a result that is completely different from what was planned and makes them too powerful.
' Wrote:Oh, and I think the Developers had something to do with the Order using Corsair guns, as you know, they made us allied.
The Corsair - Order alliance was put into the mod before there even was a dev team. So no, the developers had nothing to do with it.
I've given you several reasons the Corsairs shouldn't be using them. Now show me some reasons they should be using them other than 'everyone else can'.
' Wrote:Notice, the Corsairs aren't allowed to use Order tech without permission except the Osiris. This is because the Order gave the Corsairs Osirises before the Corsairs made their own battleship. The NPC patrols were given those Osirises because there was no Corsair BS at the time, if there were the Osiris wouldn't have even been used and there wouldn't be any Corsair - Order tech sharing.
So when I asked you for infocards or rumors to back up your comment that the Corsairs wouldnt use other peoples tech, you didnt find either so thats what you came up with?
Quote:You have something better and something that is uniquely made for your faction. Using Debs on Corsair ships gives way too much diversity and too much anti-cap power when coupled with the Corsair's ship's abilities. It's a combination of balance issues along with the fact that having a faction have the ability to choose between two different types of weapons when others don't have that ability also has an effect on balance. The other factions have the choice of Debs. Giving the Corsairs a choice between Tizonas, Coladas, and Debs gives them way too much freedom and destroys the balance built into the Del Cid lines. Guns and ships are balanced with each other. Corsair ships and Del Cids were balanced to be used together. Replace the Del Cids with Debs and you've got a result that is completely different from what was planned and makes them too powerful.
Wait, just so I understand, you think using the weaker guns is going to make us more powerful? Thats the argument now?
Quote:The Corsair - Order alliance was put into the mod before there even was a dev team. So no, the developers had nothing to do with it.
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