Admin Notice: Policy Changed

[ryoken]

Hey there.
I filed a sanction regarding a scammed loan yesterday. Is it legitimate?
Also I'd like to know more about the "why's" behind this change.
I loaned money twice, so I'm not really into the business that much but there should always be a way to get your credits back. I mean, if there's such a way in the real world, why not in rp?

What if someone who rp's his business fairly well, like to loan money to someone who doesn't reply in the proper rp? Should he tell him to sod off?

No really. I'm concerned. First off, I have 400mil floating around and I bet I'm not the only one that gets scammed by someone who first looks serious about his intention and then runs away.

I really can't agree with that.

So... I'd like to buy a new car. Just because I feel that the current one doesn't cover my needs anymore. Now I'm going to the bank and ask for a loan. As they can see, I have a house which is almost payd off, so it's not a problem getting credits.

So... One player likes to buy a transport. Just because he feels that the current one doesn't cover his needs anymore. He's going to the bank and asks for the loan. As they can see, he's in an official trading faction and got a ship there, so it's not a problem getting credits.

Now... I wonder how the Bank (in game) could have access to the player's property, if not via admins. I indeed could not care less about this whole topic if I wasn't involved right now.
I did not loan credits because I coud make a 10% profit out of it, but because I had good reasons to trust that guy. Unfortunately he did not pay me back and now I have 400million dead credits floating around?
Not fair. Not cool.
A bank could take my house.
What can I take? And how?

Not sure where you are from,but in Canada we have a thing called bankruptsy.(spelled wrong,don't care). A person can owe 500K lets say. have a paid off house,and car. He go's bankrupt,and according to laws here they cannot take his "home"(house) or "car"if not valued over a certain amount,or older then a set age. He then gets off almost free. Pays a nominal fee to a trustee(usually a small percentage of earnings) for 9 month's,then all clear,and dept free.(although credit now sucks).
So even in real life banks take risks. How do i know all this? Went bankrupt a few years ago when wife,and i split,and i got dumped with all the bills as in my name.(yes i am THAT stupid).

---

[Lyderies]

In rp, dont businesses loan out money? Meaning there are only a few factions that i can think of that loan out atm, how about making it factions that loan out? means less paper work for admins and also control from factions, its in-rp for it and makes it more controlled, some1 wants to lend out talk to a faction to loan the money out, could also create ways fpor shares etc rp in factions, more rp for trading factions

---

There was a complaint because your signature violated forum rule 1. Specifically:

Adult content or links to adult content; This includes any anime that is in any way slightly graphic or pornographic;

So it's been removed.

- Loken

[DarthBindo]

In rp, dont businesses loan out money? Meaning there are only a few factions that i can think of that loan out atm, how about making it factions that loan out? means less paper work for admins and also control from factions, its in-rp for it and makes it more controlled, some1 wants to lend out talk to a faction to loan the money out, could also create ways fpor shares etc rp in factions, more rp for trading factions

Interspace supports this.

---

gone four years, first day back: Zoners still getting shot in Theta :|

[n00bl3t]

Sounds like a bad change for both the new player and the experienced player with wealth.

---

Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[fencore]

Sounds like a bad change for both the new player and the experienced player with wealth.

See, this is what I don't agree with.

The only loan I've ever taken during my time on Disco was 15 million. It was back when I first joined OSI (and Penpen was the loaner, actually). I'd earned just enough to buy myself a Gull doing some indie work, mostly mining Helium in the field behind Erie. I bought the transport, but ended up royally screwing the rep over. Being brand new, that was tough, but Pen set up the ship, left some working money on it, and gave it to me with the provision that I pay him back whenever I could.

So, yeah, I could understand new guys needing a little to get going. Enough to buy a small transport or miner. After I took that 15 million, I worked for the rest of it. I traded in that Gull until I could pay Penpen back. Then I went until I could afford an Albatross. Traded in that until I could afford a BWT. Traded in that until I could afford a Whale. I paid off my debt before I moved on and I didn't take any more than I absolutely needed. None of this borrowing 400 million because I couldn't wait three weeks to have my battleship.

For people who are looking to take a loan and aren't going to be able to without jumping through a few hoops, unless you're a brand new player looking for a couple mil, I have no sympathy. Work for what you want. Oftentimes it's that big shiny battleship. That work makes the payoff that much more satisfying and is positive contribution to the community. Paying off the debt after the fact? That's a chore. You can't have fun with that. That's grinding because you have to because you couldn't wait, not grinding because you want to because you're working toward something.

For the loaners, you can still loan, just make sure you know who you're loaning to. Pen, in your case, Ben wasn't in our group but maybe two weeks. I don't really consider that enough time to build enough trust to hand someone as much as you did. It sucks, I feel for you, but eh. It was your choice and your risk. Same goes for any other loaner.

My point? I don't see why the admins should be saddled with the work for irresponsible use of funds. Not when they've got better things to be doing with their time. I'm in support of this ruling. Everyone else, work for what you want.

[Marburg]

This is a good & long overdue move imo.

Don't get me wrong. I like the idea of RP loan sharking, I'm just not a fan of loaners using the admins as a crutch. Ultimately, don't loan out what you can't afford to lose. Admins have so many more things to deal with in the normal run of things & shouldn't have to take the extra time to save some guy from his own bad judgment.

Wanna make huge loans in RP? by all means go for it but do some legwork & don't give out loans to just any schmo that comes begging with his hand out.

---

[Veygaar]

In rp, dont businesses loan out money? Meaning there are only a few factions that i can think of that loan out atm, how about making it factions that loan out? means less paper work for admins and also control from factions, its in-rp for it and makes it more controlled, some1 wants to lend out talk to a faction to loan the money out, could also create ways fpor shares etc rp in factions, more rp for trading factions

This guys got the right idea. Also it gives factions that long looked for exta 'power'

But i'd allow this for all official factions; except that, for whatever said faction, they only give out loans to others in that faction or to Indy's with the same ID.

Then each faction is in charge of their own loan system and can give KoS orders/whatever they can think of against scammers. (possible admin help to know about namechanges/others chars?)

Its not fool-proof but its a skeleton idea in the first place...

---

Veygaar for Admin Moderator 2013!!!

[Coin]

i've never needed to take a loan. i've loaned some, and always gotten stung. meh.

set the MAXIMUM you can loan someone at 50million. that way if you loan more, then you're a fool for going over the limit.


and it means players can't borrow the money for a cap, try it an then think urgh, horrible, and then delete the account

---

A Day in the Life of an NPC | Coin | The Journal of Caius Oakley | Build Your Dream Boat

[Dusty Lens]

They have to use admins as a crutch because there's no other way to enforce loans. Loans are in many ways a contract between players. If I take a loan for 800 million from penpen it's not my character doing it, because there's no rule governing what I can do with money in my possession.

Cannon will tell you that if I default on pen's loan that he can put a bounty on me or something. That's great. I don't care. I just gave that money to another character and bought myself a battleship. If pen puts a bounty on my battleship I'll ask for the rp reasoning and likely have valid grounds for reporting him for holding an oorp vendetta.

Because that is exactly what he'll be doing. Following an oorp vendetta.

Admins enforcing loans was a very simple, very easy job. Sometimes someone might get burned because the other party quit disco or something similar. But for every 1-2 cases of things going wrong we have the evidence of dozens of transactions going right entirely because both parties were operating under the notion that the admins would step in if things did go wrong.

I think this whole rule change smacks of lazyness and apathy. It cheapens the environment by removing a mechanism.

[fencore]

They have to use admins as a crutch because there's no other way to enforce loans [...]

Admins enforcing loans was a very simple, very easy job. [...]

I think this whole rule change smacks of lazyness and apathy. [...]

A significant lack of useable, trustable manpower when it comes to paper-pushers seems to be a common theme for matters such as these. You and I have discussed this before, but it looks like the change is a try at coming up with more efficient ways to use administrative resources. Anything else would still require people to push the work around their desk.