' Wrote:[font=Agency FB]Much as it would, the problem will remain, that if someone's cool with a faction leader on Skype, they'll get impossible combos a lot, only to "pwn" in PvP. There's still a need for some type of control over the permissions, I realized recently. Bias would grow from a slight nuisance to a gargantuan beast of a problem.
Well, replace Faction Leader with Council Member and you get the same problem.
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Mephistoles
' Wrote:Well, replace Faction Leader with Council Member and you get the same problem.
[font=Agency FB]A much smaller one. A single Council member doesn't carry the whole vote, while a faction leader does. If someone somehow charmed more than half the council or pulled favours (which can be checked, mind you) then kudos to him for his diplomacy skills but still take away the ship. Simple as that.
Sucks to be a weight on the wrong side of the brilliance-insanity scale.
' Wrote:[font=Agency FB]A much smaller one. A single Council member doesn't carry the whole vote, while a faction leader does. If someone somehow charmed more than half the council or pulled favours (which can be checked, mind you) then kudos to him for his diplomacy skills but still take away the ship. Simple as that.
You got to put this people away from each other. For example two people not liking each other on forums would be more useful then two who do.
They shouldn't have a skype group. I would even make comments/opinions public.
Yes, feelings would be hurt. Maybe then people could see why is something rejected and how lousy they are at making stories.
I would completely remove SRP's which bring higher PvP advantage too.
Then we would have lovingly someone who wants a ship for his SRP, not because he wrote a good story about his character being a semi god.
EDIT : on top of that, leaders of factions involved in technology (unless its generic) should approve it as well.
' Wrote:You got to put this people away from each other. For example two people not liking each other on forums would be more useful then two who do.
They shouldn't have a skype group. I would even make comments/opinions public.
Yes, feelings would be hurt. Maybe then people could see why is something rejected and how lousy they are at making stories.
I would completely remove SRP's which bring higher PvP advantage too.
Then we would have lovingly someone who wants a ship for his SRP, not because he wrote a good story about his character being a semi god.
EDIT : on top of that, leaders of factions involved in technology (unless its generic) should approve it as well.
I'd say that you must have the faction/factions leader(s) approval BEFORE going to this council, and that this council should be sn all-volunteer thing.
And I agree, should be public, but being so, should be handled carefully to minimize the hurt and whatnot.
' Wrote:I'd say that you must have the faction/factions leader(s) approval BEFORE going to this council, and that this council should be sn all-volunteer thing.
And I agree, should be public, but being so, should be handled carefully to minimize the hurt and whatnot.
Yeah, I +1 Primitive.
Faction leaders ye, all of them would have to agree.
By the way, when reading by council is done, I would do it like a jury. Until everyone on council votes Yes or No the SRP wouldn't be supported or rejected.
So basically council members should throw arguments why are they against or for the story and try to convince others with different opinion. (all publicly ofc).
' Wrote:The real problem is that people think for their character to be unique, then they need to be special, and that they need SRP or White celled tech to display this.
So what it boils down to is that people aren't creative enough to roleplay the uniqueness of their character, so they have to show it in-game instead by using different tech.
There are only two reasons people request white cell technology or want a Special Role Play request. To gain a PvP advantage or because they think they need it to be special and unique. The first is PvP related, the second denotes the fact that players think they need technology to be special or unique. Either they don't think they can role play well enough to be special or unique or honestly can't role play well enough to make their character special or unique. I think it is a mix of both, myself.
My personal take on what we should have for a Special/Unique system? Have one that is limited so that it is sustainable. What do I mean? Set hard limits on things. Only allow a SRP for 5 terrorist ID'd characters. Then impose requirements on those characters. If the player can't maintain those requirements he loses the SRP and it is open to the public. So as an example:
Quote:Suggested Special Role Play Request System
All numbers are just figures I pulled out of the air. They are not concrete, they are open to adjustment by the administration.
Role Limitations
5 Terrorist ID'd characters (not ships, a character may have multiple)
50 Spec Op ID'd ships (note, ships)
Requirements
Terrorist IDs require 15 hours activity monthly.
Spec Op IDs require 10 hours activity monthly.
Insert other requirements here and below.
Explanations
Terrorist IDs are as the name implies. Used by characters who are terrorists in role play.
Spec Op IDs are used to allow technology combinations not allowed by the tech chart (red cells). They can also be used to gran a character extra abilities above what its normal ID would allow it.
How does one get an SRP character?
You cannot simple write a story and apply. Anyone can do this.
-Create a character and role play the character in game and on the forums for a minimal of 1 months.
-Post in the SRP Applicant thread detailing your character and your goals and links to all forum role play.
-Continue role playing the character in game and on the forums meeting the Applicant activity requirements.
-The administration will announce if your character is selected for an SRP.
What if all SRP's are taken right now?
Well there is no chance you can get an SRP without having an active Applicant, thus you must continue to role play meeting the Applicant activity requirements until a SRP is vacated willingly, by inactivity, or by admin ruling.
Once a seat is vacated how is it filled?
Once a seat has been vacated the administration will immediately query the Applicant pool to find Applicants that meet the activity requirements. All Applicants that meet the activity requirements are to be announced to the community. If your Applicant was posted after this announcement or didn't meet activity requirements as of the announcement they have no chance to fill the newly opened seat, but they do have a chance at future seats if they meet activity requirements when another seat opens up.
So my Applicant is selected as a potential to fill an open seat? How is it selected?
Very simply, by the administration, the developers, and the community. An admin has 6 votes, a developer 3, a official faction leader 2, and regular community members 1. All voting is done publicly via a method yet to be determined.
What if my Applicant isn't selected?
If you still wish to achieve a SRP, continue role playing the character you are still eligible if another seat opens up so long as you meet the Activity requirements when it opens.
A seat cannot go unfilled so long as there are Applicants that meet the activity requirements.
Okay, I know some people will have issues with different parts of it but that isn't my goal here. Remember all numbers are out of the air and would need to be replaced with what is felt to be acceptable; mine are only for demonstration purposes. As for the voting system. I suggest that developers and faction leaders get extra votes because the developers can weigh an Applicant against ongoing development stuff and faction leaders have been deemed reasonable enough to handle white cell tech requests. That is my opinion, it is inevitably up to the administration.
I couldn't think of any other ideas for activity requirement past hours. Maybe create a sub forum for SRP characters and have them have their very own message dump so that people can visibly see their role play and require them to say post 2 posts in it a month or something?
This system makes SRPs sustainable as required by the administration. It leaves room for them to change hands for any number of reasons. Perhaps if a player is sanctioned for any reason they loose their SRP too? It also forces people who want to get an SRP to actively role play their character. If you don't, you won't be eligible when a spot opens up. This also serves to deter those who won't actively role play their SRP.
Just my 2 cents. I'd love to have input into improving the system. Do not suggest hard numbers though, those will be up to the administration.
Edit: As for in game activity per month, remember if you set it to high the character looses part of its unique/special factor because it is seen very often. The Tundra is a special ship because it is rarely seen. Keep that in mind too.
Alright, I suppose I'm going to have to weigh in on this.
I am adamantly against getting rid of SRPs altogether, as some have suggested. Keeping it limited is one thing, but 100% puretech is too limiting.
Yes, I'm somewhat biased in this regard, given that I don't want to lose the Belisarius. Frankly I think I and the NTF have been quite sensible in not overusing it, and inRP we keep it mainly as a mobile command ship. It's been 9 months since its last major battle, with most of the time since then spent either behind the lines, or in repairs. (And to those who say SRPs are mostly for PvP junkies, I should point out that the Spyglass isn't very good at PvP, even if we *were* to use it for that more often.)
I do, however, like the council idea. Finding a group of trustworthy and relatively unbiased members who've got the time to read through backstory might be difficult, but having a bit of minor variety always spices things up -- if it's done intelligently.
On that note, I suppose what really irks me about the "100% puretech" mantra is that it implies that the player base isn't intelligent or mature enough to handle "non-standard" RP. And if that's the case, then why operate the server at all?
SRPs put too much weight on people who analyze them. They got life, not time to read loads of pages of nothing to determine. I got my SRP ship for 2 short paragraphs, but again it give me no advantage at all, more of a drawback for the cargo size.
Heck, why do you need SRPs people? YOu are so desperate to overcome Id restrictions? Didnt we see enough OP put together ships? Do we need terrorist IDs? Give me one, ill mount it on either of my battleships and just wreak havoc. Would you like - HELL NO.
By no means, SRPs, IDs and whatnot should be determined by some stories. I can ask someone to write it for me and voila, even though I suck at RP and am silent trading battleship fan, I can haz my SRP / Terr ID. Not the way!
lets list up the pro and cons of SRPs, free use or red cells...
for red cells:
- things are not only clear, but crystal clear, faction ship-faction guns-faction ID... anything else is ooRP and a violation of the rules
- no double standards... everyone WITHOUT exception uses either their OWN guns - and if they do not have their own, they will use generic civilian guns WITHOUT exception of how special the faction is or what the RP demands
- there is no bias. - basicly everything is available to everyone - provided you are part of the faction - for most factions that means that its 100% public - some invite only factions might still have their own gear... but i guess its hard to get rid of all the double standards ( meaning, non public gear which sometimes is OP )
- the game becomes MUCH easier to balance... problems come from ooRP gear and/or gear that is used irresponsibly ( katanas with nomad lasers, scorpions with a full nomad load, sabres with krakens and tizonas, black dragons with splitters, etc - you get the idea... ) - when everything is red cell - we can 100% balance the game to be 100% fair to everyone.
against red cells:
- uniqueness is killed
- borderline inRP is killed, even if it can and often does enrich the game tremendously!
- some characters simply become impossible - even if its 100% logical to use them in the way its meant to be ... with cross tech.
- faction RP can become boring, because it is often such special characters that trigger exiting twists.... .
- players put much efford into "becoming" special ( sadly usually not much efford into maintaining it ) - but that efford can be converted to beneficial ends for the players around those.
what has to be avoided:
- double standards - you cannot kill SRPs ... and at the same time grant SRP-like conditions to others ... that causes JUSTIFIED bias
- hypocracy - just cause something "might" happen doesn t mean it shouldn t even be tried!
- and also - just cause something was done for ages or ages ago doesn t mean its beneficial still.
suggestion:
- as others mentioned: SRPs should be granted again ... on a limited basis... it was already a concept to have at least 2 faction leaders ( any faction - it translates into 2 reknowned players ) must agree with you and your justification. - only such a SRP can be submitted
- also: SRPs then were only the path TO special RPs... but no one really considered the path FROM there on. - to maintain SRP status - one should also remain a beneficial element of the faction ... that means... activity and overall positive engagement.
- it must be looked a lot closer and more serious into who has SRPs and who can really keep them.... SRPs should also be taken away... i am not thinking of a minimal playtime, but rather of a general activity... but having the SRP stripped should be an everpresent option.
- each PLAYER should be limited to ONE SRP ( since admins have the IP - its one SRP / IP... and not per account ) ... lets be honest - to maintain more than one SRP is quite a stretch for some.
also important:
- that one is about player responsibility.... sometimes a story demands SRP... but as the story continues... the justification sometimes vanishes... yet, the player is reluctant to cancel the special rights... each player should ask him/herself if the SRP really is still needed/required - and possibly simply change back to a normal char.
the suggestions is what others mentioned before what i thought was quite a good idea.
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