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Mephistoles
' Wrote:Hmm.. fill out application, submit *more than likely approved if you took the time to think about the answers you put in the app* OH MY that was so hard Q_Q I wasted 5 minutes of my life filling it out.
I don't the problem is "omfg hax applicationszerors", but it's the fact that you need to be basically an RP god in order to get into most of the "elite" factions.
Personally, I don't think that there should be "elite" playable factions at all. But that's just my opinion, so...
' Wrote:You completely missed the point Arashi, and even contradicted yourself.
This isn't about winning or losing, rules or laws. It's about in-game roleplay without forum roleplay.
Yes, THIS IS A GAME. Why should I waste my time trying to join your BIG BOY's club?
It's perfectly possible to join an "elite" faction based on ingame RP. In fact that's how das Wilde have done it, in my experience.
Why is it wasting your time if you want to join? If you get accepted your time obviously wasn't wasted, was it? You would probably spend more time trading to make the money to buy and equip your "elite" ship (plus any others that followed it) than you would writing a small recruitment post.
' Wrote:It's perfectly possible to join an "elite" faction based on ingame RP. In fact that's how das Wilde have done it, in my experience.
Why is it wasting your time if you want to join? If you get accepted your time obviously wasn't wasted, was it? You would probably spend more time trading to make the money to buy and equip your "elite" ship (plus any others that followed it) than you would writing a small recruitment post.
I believe when they say "why should they have to join your faction" they meant that they want public IDs.
' Wrote:This is an interesting discussion. I myself am dealing with just such an issue now, as I try to figure out how to implement the new Ronin faction come 4.86, and I really am conflicted on how to do it. Do I make it an open faction, allowing anyone to fly as an indy? Or do I make it tightly controlled with no-one outside the player faction being allowed to use the ID.
For me there is a balance to a thing like this. If I go with an open ID, it will likely be restricted to just snubcraft. If I go with a closed ID, capital ships will be allowed.
Why is this balance necessary? The RP of the group is that it is very small and mainly snubcraft, if it is given an open ID, there is no way to control the number of people playing the role, but it would be very very bad and counter productive to the storyline of the faction were those players to play lots of caps.
What do you all think? How can a faction who's rp is that is is small and tight night cope with no ability to limit numbers?
Please keep it open. I have already prepared my Ronin character for .86. In fact, it's waiting in Battleship Nagasaki :)
Closed factions preserve a certain amount of RP which cannot be public. That means, not everyone can roleplay a Keeper. In fact I believe I can never RP decently a Keeper (even after I read 50 pages of the Nomad Lore) simply because my english does not enable me to do so. The same applies for Coalition for example, but not for CR which can be easily "opened".
However, this is a pointless thread like any of the past ones and any of the future ones. I love to see how we lose the point and for 5 pages it's a 1v1 fight while some randoms pop in and keep the fight running. This actually works pretty well in making the thread totally ineffective and unpopular.
You people, should quit complaining about this, even a well-known admin faction is closed, how do you think admins will nod and help you open them? :laugh:
' Wrote:It's perfectly possible to join an "elite" faction based on ingame RP. In fact that's how das Wilde have done it, in my experience.
Yes, I am trying to recall any other method Das Wilde recruits, without success. Another hint; I'm pretty sure %99 of invites to members was due to their RP while trading/mining. At least everyone from me to present that got invited was from an ingame encounter while flying our money makers. I also hardly think I coulda classified as an "elite" back then when I got invited. Maybe my elite status came immediately after the invite.....
' Wrote:Yes, THIS IS A GAME. Why should I waste my time trying to join your BIG BOY's club?
Then don't. It's really quite simple.
In all honestly, if you're not willing to put the effort to get into a faction, why should you be allowed in? After all, if you don't have to work to get in, what motivation do you have for staying in the faction and not just leaving when you're bored?
Honestly, I don't understand what all this crying is about. Grow up guys, are you seriously whining that you actually have to WORK for some things?
No one is forcing you to join these "Elite" factions.
As in life, there will be groups that you will simply not be part of, for whatever reason.
The fact is, "Elite" Factions, are generally more organized, and everyone works together better because those who cause problems can simply be... removed. Easily. They don't have the option of just going independant and continuing causing problems. There is a very definite punishment for failure, and that encourages each and every member to give their best and strive to improve and not make the same mistakes again.
Now, you say that some factions only recruit "friends". Ask yourselves, why is this? Is it not because you can rely on friends more than strangers? That you get along better with friends? That you know you'll be able to work as a team?
An incredible concept to get your mind around, I'm sure. Imagine that, preference for people you know will be reliable and good members instead of random people who are really, just unknown variables.
Alternatively, you could just dismiss my point and scream "Bias". The choice is yours.
I believe there is a rather large hole in your reasoning, Aphil, the result of a double-edged sword.
With a faction that is entirely centralized, it certainly makes removing disruptive elements easy, and prevents others from acting out their take on the whole thing.
But by the same token, what if the faction does something stupid? What happens when different viewpoints, perhaps valid and genuinely beneficial, are written off as "disruptive" and cast aside?
In extreme cases a regular faction will accumulate the evidence on an independent, make a report, and get the player in question auto-repped to hostile, or have their ship deleted. Now condense that down to "We don't like you" and then deleted, or better yet "You don't exist because we say so". It's more streamlined but that doesn't necessarily make it better. "Elite" factions are just as fallible as any other, only when they screw up it's within the faction itself, and there's nobody there, within or without, to tell them otherwise.
One can easily conclude that this leads to two, inevitable outcomes:
- Ego tripping
- The inability to correct mistakes
Both of which are extremely detestable and have already shown up in arguments with existing "Elite" factions.
While I can't speak for the other factions, I can say that, contrary to... popular belief, the SCRA High Command is not just Alvin. High Command is comprised of seven members, all voting on subjects. Indeed, Alvin doesn't even vote at all, but is a tie breaker. The fact is, we all keep an eye on each other to help each other up when one of us stumbles.
I can also personally say that no one in the SCRA (As far as I know) has ever been kicked for having a different view point or opinion. We're very tolerant of view points. I can also say that it takes quite a bit to actually be kicked out of the SCRA.
Think of it like this, every member of the SCRA is part of our "family". We look out for each other, help each other when we stumble. We're loving, but tough. Tough, but fair. And as I said, it takes a hell of a lot for someone to be kicked out of the family. In almost 90% of the cases where someone seems to of been "kicked", they've left of their own choice, and of those we've kicked, believe us, they were warned MANY, MANY times, but, alas, didn't change their behaviour.
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