Question about Liberty Navy rights

[JohnRambo]

This isn't going to happen, people always have vastly different opinions depending on their positions. The only opinions that matter are those that enforce the rules. If you avoid sanctioning people, you aren't actually advancing your cause in any meaningful way since these opinions are more often than not very deeply entrenched. Plus, I've seen many instances of "I don't want to sanction people", being a cover for "I didn't record any evidence/don't think admins will agree with me", so I am suitably jaded by skepticism.

And this "if you think something was wrong go file a sanction report" line is kinda getting old too dont you think? Also a widespread way to avoid a discussion.

The issuing of those orders is not a problem. You say official navy guys ordering other navies to kill civilians, to side with pirates, to let pirates pirate freely is not a problem.

Awesome.

If you summarise some of my actions in the past in only a few words without understanding the surrounding circumstances, I've done all of those things. Although, to avoid ordering others to shoot civilians, I did it myself with the help of those bound to obey (basically other [LN]). If they disobey the Laws of Liberty, its absolutely allowed - laws which are written with just enough ambiguity to RPly allow force in almost every situation. Coincidentally, the server rules are written this way too - if you piss off the admins enough but you haven't broken any specific rules, they will just sanction you for 1.2.

You know, if you're just going to answer "everything is ok because admins dont sancion us" there's very little point in trying to talk to you at all. Then there's very little point in writing down rules at all.

But let me try to make this something like a conversation anyway.

Reminder: We were talking about [LN] members ordering these things when they are NOT coverd by the "can not order to go against canon RP" clause. You were saying yes they can order it, as long as they dont administer punishment. Now when I repeat what you said you now say "oh but its ok if the people they are ordering to shoot disobey the laws of liberty". We were talking about orders against people who did NOT break the laws of liberty. Such as me, while I was telling the Hacker to surrender, before he attacked me.

Funnily enough, I read that example you give and don't see a problem with it. If the pirate has spent time honing his skills to the point where he is better than 99% of the server, he should be rewarded for this by increased success rate in battles, not shot at by everybody in their capital ship because they can't beat him in their fighters.

Interesting that you dont see a problem. Let me tell you where I see it:

The [LN] guy is using his faction status to give orders that dont make sinse IRP to help a pirate score an easy kill against his own faction. The RP justification is horrible, he is claiming to be fair when acutally he is helping his friend score a win against a guy who has no chance, and he is using a faction status which was given to him to serve as an example to do it.

The guy in the cruiser has spent time grinding credits just like the fighter spent time training. The guy in the sabre is the one going towards the fight, fully knowing what should await him there, and is rellying on OORP motivated crummy RP to get a blue message, without running the risk of being killed since his friend will take care of that.

Furthermore in your example, if the enemy pilot really is uberleet, then everyone's fight is ruined. The cruiser wont kill anything unless it magics itself into a gunboat and the enemy doesn't run, the fighter that was fighting him doesn't get to hit anything and the uberleet pilot can't kill anything despite the time he's invested into making himself more skilled.

Then the uberleet pilot could look for other fights. FOr example against his [LN] budy, and not in front of Manhattan.

Instead they choose to get an easy kill against a noob through abuse of faction status.

It's definitely a point of view as to whether a noob VHF vs a pro VHF is more or less balanced than a noob VHF + gunboat/cruiser vs a pro VHF. If you want to make that call, work your way up to official faction lead. If you get there, I'm sure your opinion will change significantly if you spend the significant amount of time and effort it would take to reach that position.

The guy could have taken his sabre to Manhattan, lured them into the debris field, and then his [LN] friend could have closed the trap with what ever pirate ship he wanted. That would have been legit. What they do is lame.

Not sure what call you want me to make in the other part of what you said there, but it looks like you're just trying to say that I'm not a faction leader so my opinion is irrelevant and I cant decide anything anyway.

As for your other bits, you separated my point about how official factions cant stop you from doing canon things in a bit of a silly way, since I highlighted an instance where they can. An instance provided for by the rules that state it cannot be done. This implies that there are more instances of this, but also that the judgment of their legitmacy is determined by the admins, should any instances of it come to their attention.

Not sure what you mean there, and what other bits.

I'm guessing what you'Re trying to say here is that you didnt at all get my point that even if people dont really have to fear consequences from the official faction if they ignore their orders, they can still be fooled into thinking they will, and be manipulated into following more poor RP orders than they would otherwise?

If you tell them IRP that they will suffer severe consequences although they wouldnt if the LN leaders act according to their limitations, you are still stopping those who are gullible enough from doing their canon RP. Its like trying to fool people into thinking they will get sanctioned. If you fool them to OORPly think something (like making the players think that they will get sanctioned, or set red to navy, for doing something that was perfectly within navy RP), it doesnt matter if you did it IRP or OORP. The consequence, and the intent, are the same.