Super Long Megapost First post working version.

[Gytrash]

Wow, well I think I'm done with this QQ fest. Obviously the only voice that gets heard around here is a few devs and a few admins, and not the hundreds or even thousands that actually make the game worth playing and really make it functioning and fun for everyone. I hope you all feel really big, you know who you are.

PS: Want proof? I started a poll to ask what actual players thought about it. It asked an unbiased question, a simple yes or no. I get 90% Yes players should be consulted and listened too and it get shut down by Hawk. The reason? Admins couldn't handle it. Oh... but Jinx can do his own poll, and then twist the results however he wants too. Then I get told that there was actually a discussion. Well I saw that discussion, and your doing the exact opposite of what the players asked. I have a idea for the admins and Devs who don't care about what the majority of players here want, go start another server with nobody playing and control that, or better yet go play another game and run that into the ground.

link to my poll
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=112339

link to jinx's poll
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=110566

PPS: If you look at Jinx's pool you will see somthing like this,
Option 1 "leave it as it is"* 39.81% 41 39.81%
Option 2 "change the ships to a more passive stance" 26.21% 27 26.21%
Option 3 "change the ships to a unique transport line" 26.21% 27 26.21%
Option 4 "i have my own ideas which are: ....." 7.77% 8 7.77%

Even though option two and three COMBINED make a majority, its a split vote and in any civilized society option one is still the clear winner.

Now while I have to say that I disagree with the majority of this post, I don’t really buy into the whole admins and devs don’t listen to the community this whole debacle is pushing me towards it faster than a massive gathering of Bronies causes Drag Queens to run. (Funny story there, big group of Bronies I was shepherding around Sydney, every time we met up with these drag performers they nicked off, obviously we were lowering the tone of the neighborhood ).

The point that Dirk’s poll was pushing is that the majority of Voters (At least before the poll was shut down as it was linked to the original post. I think that the poll had merit as a measure of community interest but anyway) believe that the official factions should be consulted before any changes to the ships and lore of said faction. It is clear from the reaction of the Official faction leaders that this is something that did not take place either at all or as much as it should have.

A singular majority is not the same as the general majority.

A poll with four options where one gets 43% of the vote is not a poll where that option should be dismissed out of hand. As I have said earlier there is actually based on the votes a much higher percentage of people voting to keep the Zoners in battleships, remember, combine the “No change” with the “Rebalance” crew and you get 68% that wish for the Zoners to keep battleships in one form or another.

I don't know what you're referring to nor why you're attacking a development team member but I'm going to advise you to stop doing the latter.

There is a reason a lot of Zoners are bitter towards Jinx. I said it earlier but it bears repeating. Jinx got the ire of a large part of the Zoner community with his actions at the end of the Omicroners. Now I’m not going to say that I’m aware of every part of what happened there. But I was frantically contacting people trying to find out what happened and all i could really get was Jinx saying “It’s Over”. A ranking member of the Omicroners and someone with whom I had cordial relations and was planning to have some RP of a reconciliation between OSI and the ‘Croners, Moebus, had no idea what happened. Jinx did not attempt to fnd a erplacement when he didn’t want to lead it he just ended it.

And that got a lot of people mad and they have remained mad to this very day. So anything proposed by Jinx regarding the Zoners has this pall of “Remember the Omicroners” over it.

If making the game more compatible with lore is fascism then my goal is to exterminate all democratic government.

Seriously, come on. The Zoners have a population of, what, maybe thirty thousand peoples spread across over a dozen stations and hundreds of small craft and transports around Sirius. That is not a military force. That is not a group that can support heavy warships.

The only groups that can logically support one or maybe two battleships at the most are the ones who currently have Persephones: TAZ and Phoenix.

Okay, any reference to current Zoner lore is annoying to me, and let me tell you why. Because the Zoner lore as it stands has been pieced together by people working independently of others over the course of years. Everyone is confused by it and I suspect it’s why we get a lot of lolwut zoner factions. Because the lore is confusing. I’ve got everyone who wants to and plays a Zoner working on hammering out lore that fits together and is workable. I would prefer it if there were no eral changes to the Zoner shipline before that occurs.

And before you say “This then is the perfect time to change the shipline!” No. It’s not. Because the people who are hammering out the lore are Players, not Devs. We are going to fit it to current RP as well as we can and the original lore. We are trying to get the definitive origin of the Zoner movement down as well as how the Zoners have developed since vanilla down. Because not much developing of Zoner official lore has happened and we want to fit as much player RP into it as we can.

That's not what's happening, sorry.

Also, next person to take a shot at Jinx or any other member of the development team is getting 24 hours to think about what they've done. Harassing other members of the community is against the rules, period.

See also, previous chunk of text by me.

Whos done any harassment? I would say your threatening me and others with that comment. Jinx made us mad, were going to refer to him in our complaints. We see whats going on as an attack on our group, can we ban Jinx?

It was more directed towards the people blaming Jinx for everything and deriding him for the Persephone etc.

Zoner ID won't change. They seek for ways to reducing zoner activity, not balance.

I'm going to have to ask you politely to stop, go make a sandwich, maybe have a cup of your preferred calming beverage, and think about whether this is such a massive deal or not before you post again. You are overreacting majorly. This is not intended to damage the Zoners. This is intended to make some sense of the lore and inject some much needed logic and common sense into Discovery.
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Having had an entire pool party in between reading these posts and writing this feel that I have more than fulfilled the requirements set forth by you.
Yes this will be damaging to Zoner factions, official and unofficial. And here’s why. The Zoners are currently a powerful neutral faction. Not as powerful as the Houses but powerful enough that the Corsairs and Outcasts aren’t walking all over us. Because lets face it, that’s what will happen if you do this. Not to mention the Red hessians and other pirate factions. We would also be weakened enough that the Houses would feel far less hesitant about completely dictating policy. At present the Zoners are a powerful but scattered people, not able to raise in any one point the forces required to be a major threat but give them sufficient reason and feel the consequences. Also in case you complain about house militaries stomping the Zoners in ten seconds flat. Okay, they can do that. Then http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_warfare also it would look bad to the voters.

I have no idea what's going to happen with the Zoner ID. That is not a task of the development team's, but rather one of the adminstration team.

If people don't calm down, this thread's taking a 24 hour recess through the magic of mister dancing lock such that those who are not being level-headed can spend some time trying to do so.

Let me tell you a tale of Responsibility. Let’s say I’m in charge of a segment of a company and I make a change in policy. This change in policy requires other departments workers to change their ways in a detrimental manner. For example I state that everyone must wear black leather lace ups while at work. And the manufacturing section workers say “That’s not workable” and I say back “Not my problem, why don’t you just stop needing workboots”. See the problem here? You should consider and talk to other departments before making changes. Tou are making a massive change to the Zoner faction, or at least you are trying to and when people raise valid concerns all you have to say is “Not my problem, go bother someone else.” Not really the correct way to show how you are doing this for the good of the community.

We did. That was what the poll was for. 40% of players who voted wanted it to stay the same, 60% wanted some sort of change.

This is literally the development team using community-driven democracy to determine a course of action for the mod.

I’ve said this before but it needs to be said again. 68% of the community voted to keep Zoners in battleships. Of that 68% 25% wished to change the balance of said battleships. Only 25% of the community wanted the transports you are pushing on them. Your argument has been rendered invalid via the application of LOGIC!

Probably. But the fun part of a democracy is that one side is invariably not going to like the result. It's not so much a flaw in the system as it is a flaw in human nature.

Dirk, options 2 and 3 of that poll were close enough that we merged them together in the aftermath of the voting. At least, that was my take on it. Transports and liners are much more passive than battleships.

The merging of options two and three was in error. I shall restate why because it can’t be said enough. Desiring to change the balance of battleships a bit is not the same as turning battleships into transports. I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that you did but I have come to a completely different one and I have told you why.