(02-23-2014, 01:05 PM)Kazinsal Wrote: No idea. That's the admin team's jurisdiction. Try asking them instead?
SRP idea can't work because the goal isn't to grandfather in hundreds of existing zoner battleships.
EDIT: Gold medal hockey game starting, responses will be in between periods.
See also, allowing official factions to police the Zoner capital ships to prevent the hundreds of existing Zoner battleships. We could just take them away from the Jumpers and that would cut the numbers of them existing at least in half.
This way we don't have to bastille every zoner cap until every single zoner cap gets SRPed.
Would you rather continue RPing without your battleship turrets or would you rather be in Bastille?
Yeah, put the caps to Bastille and read a lot of SRP request would be far more work for the board than simply turn them into transports, but maybe we could reach some consensus in this topic.
If the admins don't want to work more due to lack of time/RL stuff/laziness just say that honestly. It would be straighter than simply push this down in our throat while saying "deal with it, that's life, there is no other solution, lore logic needs it."
You've got it a bit backwards my friend.
It's being changed because of the lore logic. What they're doing about it comes after that.
IIRC Admin forces are already spread a bit thin at the moment, and dealing with that many SRPs will definately take more time from (sorry to say) more significant things.
A post-post thought;
Is this simply a game of morals now? Because whether they tell you they don't want to or don't, it doesn't change the fact of the matter. Just saying.
This is the problem. The Zoner lore sucks. It sucks because nobody paid attention to it. What eh Zoners have done is taken the scraps that they started with and build a thriving and vibrant community. To take away that simply because of the actions of a couple of lolwuts would be devastating to the community as a whole. In one fell swoop you would remove years and years of RP as well as taking away the proverbial “Big stick” thus opening up Zoners to even more bullying.
(02-23-2014, 02:09 PM)Omega472 Wrote: There is disco Zoner lore. Not sure what you think is going on, that Zoners just kind of happened in the mod? And to assume the lore wasn't developed due to the devs being lazy is overly critical, if not hateful. If it's something that wasn't of particular interest, there would have been no reason for the lore to have been embellished.
Seriously, I can understand everyone's frustration in the matter, but I highly recommend that before you continue acting the way you all are you take a break from the forums. Have a drink. Make a sandwich. Because right now it's looking very much like rage induced hate and less like the developmental discussion everyone wants. I love this mod just as much as you guys, and I also want to see the best of it. So let me hear your arguments from a development stand point, not a biased standpoint.
Alrighty then. The Zoners were put into Vanilla with very shaky lore. They actually were kind of there.
The vanilla lore for them is literally three lines one of which is saying they use photon cannons.
There was a little bit of development of lore for the Zoners but most of that was just hocking the ships in there. There is a hell of a lot of RP done by Zoners and for Zoners explaining all of the things that we have. We’ve worked hard for our benefits. We started with scraps and built something great.
Also we have a team working on fitting Zoner RP into a consolidated Lore section. And explaining how they came to be and why the things we have came to be as well.
(02-23-2014, 02:22 PM)sathish.wazza Wrote: If this change is only due to Zoner lore,then why is the restriction on transports put in the first place?It was not there before,that was the first step in diminshing the whales population.And now adding transports which are just going to be not used and will collect dust just like the whales.
See the point?The addition of transports doesnt mean anything but another of the ships that will go down the line as a useless addition.And if you say that they need a well defended transport just because of the wild nature of the Omicrons and for their safety,then it contradicts the same ground on which you are removing the Juggernaut and the Aquillon,the reason that they are not useful since Zoners dont have any big threats.
All that I personally am asking is that,what will these new models do to improve the activity of the trading that the Zoners do now?And what will it do to improve the overall Zoner activity,be it indy or faction?Can anyone answer these questions?
EDIT:As far as I have followed each post and said all over this thread,the devs dont care about ID changes,they do ship modifications,remove them and just dont know what might happen after that.Its the admins job as I got reply from some,and in turn the admins havent done anything in here excpet Hawk,who sold his Zoner Juggy to me yesterday and expresses his concern of removing a 5 year old ship.
Not much to say here. If only the Devs would answer our questions like I respond to their posts. It would be so nice.
(02-23-2014, 02:24 PM)Echo 7-7 Wrote: A comment for the sake of equality:
The proliferation of capital ships by all factions in a mere 20 years is certainly not consistent vanilla production capacities by an order of magnitude (or more). However, the Discovery mod was Igiss' personal vision; it was his to do with what he wanted, and by playing here we've all chosen to accept that. However, we do now recognise that his particular style of storytelling did not provide comprehensive coverage for each faction, or consideration of less tangible elements of lore which did not translate directly to gameplay features. However, one can simply not just "fix everything" overnight, because of the sheer inertia of the mod, and the differences in opinions about how to "fix" the mod.
In other words, while the Zoner players may feel that their wings are being clipped, I would hypothesise that in an ideal situation, a similar demilitarisation would happen across the board. However, there is a saying about the nail that sticks out the most being the first to get the hammer...*
Okay Echo, I crack the knuckles of my typing fingers menacingly.
No, it’s not in line with the lore of Vanilla. Of course if you follow Vanilla lore you can kill a battleship with a fighter really easily. So maybe Vanilla isn’t the best lore to follow excruciatingly closely.
And it’s not a wing clipping. It’s a wing removal. Let me tell you the difference. Clipping the wings of the Zoners would be rebalancing the ships so that they were more armoured but less firepowery. Removing some guns or lessening the powercore and adding armour. Changing them to transports is removing the wings entirely and not even bothering to bandage the stumps.
And as the bird of the Zoners lays on the floor, bleeding out and concussed from the removal of years of memories you lean over and cry out “Are we having fun yet?”
That’s a much better metaphor for it I would think.
And the way that the Zoners stand out is that the Zoners were given a little and started with a little and made a lot. The zoners have probably done the most factionbuilding out of any faction. We started with just some stations and have roleplayed every advance we got.
The liberty navy started out with a whole Navy and has stagnated since. The Zoners on the other hand have continued to grow and to make the most of what they have. And if they don’t have they’ve gone out and gotten it. Either RPed making it themselves or bought it from the people who do have it.
(02-23-2014, 02:24 PM)Echo 7-7 Wrote: Personally, I would be in favour of having all Battleships only accessible by some regulated system (comparable to a SRP, but perhaps not necessarily quite as detailed). Regardless, I recognise that such a system is simply unfeasible to execute at this point in time.
Aside; it's important to note that IDs are the realm of the Administrators, not the Developers. Yes, there is overlap between the Devs and the Admins, but the two groups are not the same.
*I.E. The Zoners having access to "capital ships" was evidently judged to be one of the worse offenders in this scenario. This doesn't even take into account that the Zoner players in the past haven't been able to agree on what Zoner lore should be, if you ignore the fact they've been given bad cues by previous iterations of the mod.
Addendum: While some factions have become over-inflated, the Zoners are one of the rare instances of current faction lore being completely contradictory to canonical vanilla lore.
The current Zoner RP is not contradictory to Vanilla lore. Unless we have stopped using Photon cannons? http://freelancer.wikia.com/wiki/Zoners
That’s the Vanilla Zoner infocard.
It’s pretty hard to contradict it.
We’ve just developed it a bit, you know, from three lines to hundreds of lines.