' Wrote:Actually an insert here McNeo, you began firing randomly at HF ships LONG BEFORE you ever were hired. For the record, hell when I first made HF I was buying weapons in an unknown system (this was when we were just Mercs nothing more) I was fired on by your Battleship when I was buying guns for mine. (A NOD Osiris saved my ass when I was dock raped by you). Now say whatever everything above is true.
You fail to realise that being a lane hacker, you are fair game to any bounty hunter. You can consider this for a moment; I do favours for many sides, like the SF and SA when i can.
I let your shield come up did i not? I remember the incident but not clearly so please tell me if i let your shied come up. I dont want to make assumptions and make this an unpleasant experience.
Everything above probably is true, from your point of view. No matter how hard anyone tries, events in the past will always be skewered by their perception of those events. This applies to everybody, including myself. That is why arguements and disagreements happen in the first place.
' Wrote:For one Hyperwave, whilist I respect your opinion. How dare you say that HF and AW should not be allied? We have every right to be allied just as RM and SF do. And SA and SF. HF and AW have an alliance, sometimes all it takes is enough things in common and an alliance is not too far out from the scope of sight and reality. The main Characters of each faction, Luciaden and Drake Thastus are both ruthless killing machines with extreme intellegence. They both run a mercenary business (which unknown to most people because they never read anything) HF is a pirate merc group. Two Mercenary groups with two leaders that are very similar although different species. And both have a hatred for cowards and etc... Our alliance was forged back when everyone and their grandma allied but we had a good reason. Both leaders had met in RP and discussed terms for an alliance. Agreeing on the terms it evolved into one of the longest standing and most productive alliances ever. We help them and they help us. And there is alot of non RP reasons for why we allied but i assure you 95% of our reasons are RP...look at other factions. That ally everything that moves.
Not to pick on people but, SA...allies with CUFF and CCE immediately. then they ally with BSG and then SF. they then try to suck up to every other house and you all high mighty don't whine at them. Just AW because you and many other people in the community hate AW and hate Dab and all they want is to whine about every damned detail of the person and the faction in an attempt to put them down and get rid of them because the fact the AW was once the biggest faction makes them feel SMALL. I am tired of the AW bashing for god's sake ENOUGH!!!! Yeah I expect to get flamed.
First line: Don't use provoking language in a reasoned debate. Simply state your opinions and reasons for those, like the other contestants of this debate. There is no need to use angry language. I know your sick of AW bashing, but this is a reasonable and valid debate, which you are trying to spoil. If you look at what Hyperwave could have said after your second post, you would see that it could have very quickly degenerated into a forest fire. We dont want that do we?
Other factions have different alignments to AW. With your reasoning, the SA, shouldn't be allowed to ally with the SF (currently allied to them through the war). CUFF claimed, when they came back to the server for a short period, that they were a lawful organisation. Now, lies this may have been, but the SA trying to ally with them is perfectly reasonable. CCE were, i believe, a Kusari lawful faction at that time. Even though the war could make this doubtful, as well as their alliance with KNF, bearin mind that they are not at war yet, and Liberty are trying to act as mediators in the war (albeit not allowing IMG representatives from Rhineland). Due to this aspect, it can be argued with some success that Liberty does have the right to ally with both in an attempt to stop them killing each other.
I do not hate AW or Dab. Far from it in fact, hes a nice guy. I just do not agree with the diplomacy that he uses. I can see others not likeing Dab and using it as a reason to call into question everything he does, and i can see why this drives you to defend him in an indiscriminate way from all comers. Thats fine, but dont defend him in such a way that you offend other people, as this causes flames. Im not trying to tell you what you can and cant do, im trying to tell you what you should and shouldn't do.
The SF being allied with RM goes back quite a long time if i gather correctly. However, one of those sides isnt involved in the war yet, and therefore still is entitled to keep that alliance. Yes, the diplomacy between those two sides ingame is falling apart (on the news), but it hasn't fallen apart yet. I am sure that when this becomes a 2v2 war between the houses, that the SF will be forced to break off their alliance with RM. If they dont do so quickly after the full war starts, you canbet on another one of these threads poping up.
Dab, thankyou for clarifying the term "closely affiliated". I see now that your position means that, though you defend the zoners, you are more like a contracted organisation, which are truely separate from the Zoners themselves. You are part of the Zoners, but a separate organisation happening to be defending them from agressors AS WELL AS protecting your own interests. You have proved your point and i stand down. From the evidence presented in front of me, you have convinced me that you diplomacy is correct. Above, i say that i do not agree with your diplomacy (2 paragraphs up), but those were under the conditions that i understood them as. Now i understand what you view yourself as and you are correct.
