(03-21-2018, 10:39 AM)sindroms Wrote: In a perfect world, you shouldn't be able to sell ore to POBs.
Why? Why not, just because someone don't like it? Mining factions are not dying because of POBs, Kruger always had POBs, we do well in activity. If someone just has a personal liking to see all PoBs go extinct that is another thing. Like NPC stations PoBs also play their role on server, PoBs actually behave like stations if you forbid a company to store commodities like ore on a base they build, I don't see much logic in the move
You can ignore reality but you can not ignore consequences of ignoring reality
(03-22-2018, 12:35 AM)Karlotta Wrote: 1. Remove indy miner ID completely, and give Freelancer ID + fighter turret mining laser mining bonus, preferably used in rear mounted turret slots in the regular VHFs.
You are seriously suggesting mining with REAR turret? The one that shoots behind the ship?
(03-22-2018, 01:06 AM)Karlotta Wrote: I said "afk-waiting hauler", and meant haulers that just wait and do nothing while a miner mines for them. Haulers would still transport the ore from POB to NPCs bases. They could also tractor in ore if they want, although that makes them more vulnerable for pirates.
What are the haulers supposed to do while they wait? Fly in circles?
(03-22-2018, 02:58 AM)The.Outlaw.Star Wrote: That base in kansas in the copper field! I tried for weeks to get ppl to trade things with me and you know what I got all week? "Cant mining copper in Liberty" it was dead everywhere else *sadface* if that base wasnt there someone would have at least needed my help to mine or haul.
I'm not sure what you mean by: "get ppl to trade things with me"
But have you considered going to Kansas and helping mine and haul copper ore there, CSD always needs ppl to mine or haul the ore?
I feel like i am one of the few people that makes friends and trade convoys despide the pobs in the fields....i never had problems to trade with people find a transport/miner in lets say semi peak times +40 peope online.There are some people that like to pirate traders/miners and pobs are making that hard for them i think thats the main reason.Altho i do agree pobs inside mining fields should not exist 15-20k radius is enought for me i think it promotes miner to find transport or transport to find miner if he doesnt want to buy the ore from the base(witch happends to me i mined countless time for X transport)or if the transport is on the other side of the universe u can simply store the ore in the pob and let him buy it later on its a win win he pays u get payed from pob owner resourses.
I think there should be better punishment for ninja pob builders,ive seen alot core 1 base with no rp about building them,also make a restriction a account or a character that hasnt played discovery server for lets say 2-3 weeks cant build pob.
(03-22-2018, 01:07 PM)supatroll Wrote: I feel like i am one of the few people that makes friends and trade convoys despide the pobs in the fields....i never had problems to trade with people find a transport/miner in lets say semi peak times +40 peope online.There are some people that like to pirate traders/miners and pobs are making that hard for them i think thats the main reason.Altho i do agree pobs inside mining fields should not exist 15-20k radius is enought for me i think it promotes miner to find transport or transport to find miner if he doesnt want to buy the ore from the base(witch happends to me i mined countless time for X transport)or if the transport is on the other side of the universe u can simply store the ore in the pob and let him buy it later on its a win win he pays u get payed from pob owner resourses.
I think there should be better punishment for ninja pob builders,ive seen alot core 1 base with no rp about building them,also make a restriction a account or a character that hasnt played discovery server for lets say 2-3 weeks cant build pob.
Exactly, on top of this POB's do run out of ore, and leave mining and trading as the only option. Hell last week I was mining diamonds in Omega-11, someone from USI showed up, needed a cargo hold full, we ended up making a full trade run to some backwater Liberty system and filled my hold with Platinum. It was honestly some great trading RP.
DHC-Kiel (Vincent Stiglitz - Daumann Heavy Construction) DHC-Hammelburg (Vincent Stiglitz - Daumann Heavy Construction)[ [RM]Fl.Hugo.Oppenheimer (Hugo Oppenheimer - Rhineland Military) RNC-Essen (Rhineland Military Reserve) Russian_Weapons_Dealer (Freelance Weapon Smuggler)
(03-21-2018, 11:27 AM)ronillon Wrote: I still disagree with the notion, that POBs in mining fields are killing interaction. I think it is actually the opposite. Dont know about pirates, because I do not play one, but it sure attracts a lot of miners and haulers. The fact, that you can dock on POB INSIDE mining zone also means, that when you undock, there is a high chance, that you see someone else there. Be it miner slowly mining into POB, or hauler waiting for miners to show up.
If the POB was 15k away from mining zone, it would mean that your potential customer or miner for hire would be 15-30k away from you. But you would not know if they are indeed there or not, unless you flew there and check for yourself. If there is no one there, what you do? Fly those 30k back to POB and dock again? So you have just spent 5 minutes by checking if there is a player you could interact with.
From this angle, POBs 15k from mining field are killing player interaction.
Regarding those pirates, like I said, I do not play one, but shouldnt they prey on haulers instead of miners? No matter where the mining POB is, or whether there is a POB at all, once the ore is mined, it needs to be hauled to sellpoint. That should be the place and time pirates should strike.
Also, shouldnt a miner under fire docking on POB be PvP dead? Also if POB has shield, pirate can deny docking by activating it by single shot.
I always meet more players near mining POB, than when hauling the ore to sellpoint or trading in general. It IS an ACTIVITY HUB.
I have reviewed many posts of this treat again, and i have to say i can not see a true "problem" to the server anymore if pob's are closer, or even inside mining-zones.
I quoted ronillon because i just finished a post almost identical before rereading his one, and he was able to find better words than i did.
(03-21-2018, 11:27 AM)ronillon Wrote: I still disagree with the notion, that POBs in mining fields are killing interaction. I think it is actually the opposite. Dont know about pirates, because I do not play one, but it sure attracts a lot of miners and haulers. The fact, that you can dock on POB INSIDE mining zone also means, that when you undock, there is a high chance, that you see someone else there. Be it miner slowly mining into POB, or hauler waiting for miners to show up.
If the POB was 15k away from mining zone, it would mean that your potential customer or miner for hire would be 15-30k away from you. But you would not know if they are indeed there or not, unless you flew there and check for yourself. If there is no one there, what you do? Fly those 30k back to POB and dock again? So you have just spent 5 minutes by checking if there is a player you could interact with.
From this angle, POBs 15k from mining field are killing player interaction.
Regarding those pirates, like I said, I do not play one, but shouldnt they prey on haulers instead of miners? No matter where the mining POB is, or whether there is a POB at all, once the ore is mined, it needs to be hauled to sellpoint. That should be the place and time pirates should strike.
Also, shouldnt a miner under fire docking on POB be PvP dead? Also if POB has shield, pirate can deny docking by activating it by single shot.
I always meet more players near mining POB, than when hauling the ore to sellpoint or trading in general. It IS an ACTIVITY HUB.
I have reviewed many posts of this treat again, and i have to say i can not see a true "problem" to the server anymore if pob's are closer, or even inside mining-zones.
I quoted ronillon because i just finished a post almost identical before rereading his one, and he was able to find better words than i did.
I feel like the majority of people that are against pobs are pirates mainly, i do agree that pobs should not be in mining field, i rly made alot of contacts around my pob and others,even if is just chit chat is still fun idk whats the problem then...mb people are approaching the pob owners/miners/transport differently than i do
(03-21-2018, 11:27 AM)ronillon Wrote: I still disagree with the notion, that POBs in mining fields are killing interaction. I think it is actually the opposite. Dont know about pirates, because I do not play one, but it sure attracts a lot of miners and haulers. The fact, that you can dock on POB INSIDE mining zone also means, that when you undock, there is a high chance, that you see someone else there. Be it miner slowly mining into POB, or hauler waiting for miners to show up.
If the POB was 15k away from mining zone, it would mean that your potential customer or miner for hire would be 15-30k away from you. But you would not know if they are indeed there or not, unless you flew there and check for yourself. If there is no one there, what you do? Fly those 30k back to POB and dock again? So you have just spent 5 minutes by checking if there is a player you could interact with.
From this angle, POBs 15k from mining field are killing player interaction.
Regarding those pirates, like I said, I do not play one, but shouldnt they prey on haulers instead of miners? No matter where the mining POB is, or whether there is a POB at all, once the ore is mined, it needs to be hauled to sellpoint. That should be the place and time pirates should strike.
Also, shouldnt a miner under fire docking on POB be PvP dead? Also if POB has shield, pirate can deny docking by activating it by single shot.
I always meet more players near mining POB, than when hauling the ore to sellpoint or trading in general. It IS an ACTIVITY HUB.
You are confusing what the source of activity is. It is the mining zones, not the POBs. If POBs will be removed from the mod, the mining zones will continue creating activity (just like in the pre-POB era, when traders simply flew to the zone where miners were waiting for their customers or mining for their Hegemons). If mining fields will be removed from the mod, POBs will not create the activity you are referring to anymore. People will simply always travel to the source of the ore regardless if it´s miner in the field or POB.
And like I said before, there can be no docking under fire or raising shield when miner rush to dock immediately after the red contact appears on scanner. Claiming "he can have chance because I may overlook him" what somebody said here is quite weak balance.
Also I find it funny that some suggests that only pirates complain (and on top of that many admit they don´t play unlawfuls do they do not know how it feels for the other side). Of course they complain, because it´s them whose gameplay is affected. It does not affect lawfuls negatively (at least not directly, putting the problem with breaking laws aside) and it provides safety to miners and traders, so who else is supposed to complain? But if there will be bad environment for pirates, we can not be surprised when very little people will be interested to play them, what have serious consequencies as they are part of the basic ingame activity creation chain.
Maybe miners should consider this example with almost same situation but roles are switched - how would you like if pirates would be repeatedly making POBs right in the mining zones (and because of rules, lawfuls would not be able to remove them sooner than after 8/24 hours) what would give them possibility do just undock and pirate miners instantly, giving them almost no chance to escape?
I think what has been postet means that pob's close to mining areas are making mining as activity, not for making money, even more accessible. Also it is a good way for player who are new like me, knowing people with similar interest and getting involved into more interaction.
That will create more ore transports from pob's to the selling spots, which will create more posibilities for pirates than spreaded out traders over whole sirius doing normal traderuns.
How much does a pirate get from a miner? i mean reasonable demand of cash? how much from a transport to the selling spot? second is like up to 4 times more maybee? Come by where i mine and i won't quickdock. Offer me some fun, or creative RP, i will try to do the same, plus i pay even more than you damanded.
So you say a Pirate has no way to get a Miner at least pvp-dead while aproaching and the Miner is quick-docking?
So may demand a fitting rule about the quick-docking pob's under rp... if this is the problem.
People making lot of money mining with the help of pob's is a good thing for a RP Server, at least i actually believe that... people take it easyer if a pirate comes by, some may even, like me, welcoming it and do not look that much on the playerlist if traveling to avoid them, avoiding pirates is not a very hard task with a bit of experience... having two trader in different areas of sirius and a bit of knowledge who is pirating and who not is enough... so layed back trader are good for pirating, i mean interaction.
If to many capital ships is a true problem as i saw in a post, demand them beeing more expensive.
If people who like mining say it is sad as it is, because they cant bring together a interaction between miners anymore, with some RP and group-fun i would be more worried about that situation. But it is true that most arguments tend to the interaction with piracy in this thread.
EDIT:
(03-22-2018, 03:13 PM)Laura C. Wrote: Maybe miners should consider this example with almost same situation but roles are switched - how would you like if pirates would be repeatedly making POBs right in the mining zones (and because of rules, lawfuls would not be able to remove them sooner than after 8/24 hours) what would give them possibility do just undock and pirate miners instantly, giving them almost no chance to escape?
(03-22-2018, 12:35 AM)Karlotta Wrote: 1. Remove indy miner ID completely, and give Freelancer ID + fighter turret mining laser mining bonus, preferably used in rear mounted turret slots in the regular VHFs.
You are seriously suggesting mining with REAR turret? The one that shoots behind the ship?
Yes. The turret is useless during PvP, but many vanilla VHFs have it, and it has been like that in the original 4.85 mining update. It's very comfortable to mine like that locked in rear turret view and strafing to get ore into sight.
(03-22-2018, 11:38 AM)ronillon Wrote:
(03-22-2018, 01:06 AM)Karlotta Wrote: I said "afk-waiting hauler", and meant haulers that just wait and do nothing while a miner mines for them. Haulers would still transport the ore from POB to NPCs bases. They could also tractor in ore if they want, although that makes them more vulnerable for pirates.
What are the haulers supposed to do while they wait? Fly in circles?
He could mine too, for example, if it's a Hegemon who only hauls to the POB. If the small miner bonus is reduced to the point that hegemon solo mining is more efficient than miner+5k hauler mining, people will switch to hegemon+small miner. This will make building a POB 20k from a mining field profitable for solo miners as well as hegemon+lightminer teamwork. With 5k+smallminer, there's no use for a POB because the hauler can bring it do the far away NPC base directly.
Yes, the good old pre-POB-era, when it was the mining fields that created RP. But these times, with 200+ people on the server, are gone. Today you might have a peak of 80 players, most of the time you only see 12-25 players online. The pirate encounters in the mining fields I mentioned above, 1/4 of them I had to create myself...
PS: Okay, I admit I just saw a Bretonian miner and transport in Dublin at 5-6 a.m.
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