Quote:Let's take the Bs| for example. They're working to portray The Order to the best of their ability. Their vision of that is that the vast majority of their pilots man ****ty little fighters performing quick hit and run strikes or force recon while the brass ply the heavy hitters through mean space.
You might be able to shiningle your way in with something heavier, but it would be up to you to convince them why that would be so and why you should step into an organization above other people who may have invested far more energy into the group than you have.
In a player faction, it's up to them to decide how the group operates.
Of every "npc" faction (rep faction) in the game, the order has the most respectable independent players i've ever seen. There arent many of us, sure, but we work together with black squadron and they dont give us crap for not joining them.
I've never seen a black squadron member criticize or attempt to attack an order tagged/id'd independent just because he's an independent, or just because he flies something bigger than a fighter. Black squadron respects us, and in return we respect them. The other groups around sirius need to learn from that.
I just want to play this game/mod, and have fun doing so.. I find it hard alot of times. Its okay to take the game seriously, as i do to a certain extent, but getting personal and engaging in forum fights is just not fun to watch, and i get glued to these forums for some reason.
*sigh* i find myself wanting to leave, yet i am unable to, i love this community, and this mod, its like a second home to me in a way. There are alot of things that are debated here, but these end up in a fire fight.
Instead of getting into flame fests or whatever over a certain issue, just sit back and think "What can i do to solve this problem, what can we as a community do to solve this problem", but i doubt that will happen. Not trying to sound like a hippie here, but isn't there enough hate outside the internet?
"Don't fight the problem, decide it."
George C. Marshall
Sorry for the bit of rant here, its getting late.. but i just want this place to be better than it currently is. I like to wake up and browse the forums, and see people trying to fix problems on the server, instead of chewing eachothers head off..
sniper, I did try to fix the problem, by providing a good example of an independent character here for almost two months. I helped in a few cases, made the difference for a few other independents who were still working on their RP or trying to figure out how things worked here. Even then, I took crap from factions... so I stopped caring.
The problem will work itself out eventually. Either the factions will 'win' and the indies will get fed up and leave the server, or the factions will finally collapse under the stress of trying to control everything that goes on here.
Oh bother, it's turned into a faction versus indies thread already and we're not two pages in. The only two factions I can think of that could be described as heavy handed are the RM and the 101st, all the rest mostly do not care what you do so long as you are within RP, I know both the XA and the LR espouse the virtues of attempting to be the best damn Rogues and Xenos on the server, we don't demand anyone sign up, and I don't demand that everyone fly as one of my faction, whether they are a member or not. The only thing I expect from indy Rogues is that they listen to the LR when they are grouped with us. Nothing more. Especially if it's me or one of my seconds leading the action.
Most factions I have had the pleasure of joining are much the same, the QCRF does not demand you be QCRF to play bretonian military, the LN would like you to be LN but as Xing prooves, it isn't mandatory. The LPI deals with indies on a case by case basis, only crying out if something is way beyond LPI RP. Even the 101st doesn't demand you fly as 101st to be an Outcast.
The division is truly as Blodo says it is, those that wish for a realistic sense of RP and those that do not wish to pay heed to that. There is a middle ground, there always is, the community hasn't polarised yet, but it's likely it will continue if we aren't all willing to drop this senseless arguing and work on making things better in a reasonable and controlled fashion.
Things will not change overnight and no amount of pontificating on anyone's behalf will make it do so. Change must be gradual to take effect in a community so deep rooted as this one. Yelling about Factions/Indies being the root of all evil will not make things better.
Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.
-I just skipped my post because everyone else put down the argument faster than I could type.-
Good job Blodo!
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
Sniper: Well, ranting is one thing. I still wonder if anyone sees past this ridiculous notion of undefined "factions" and "independents", like I do. Just to summarise my analysis: I explained that when the established players encounter a new player who they do not recognise, but who tries to fit into a position of command (usually by flying a big ship), they attempt to establish an opinion of him by taking him through a simple test of respect. This test usually consists of in RP questions, and depending on the outcome of this test their level of respect for this new figure is adjusted. Now it has no meaning whether it is your first five seconds or five consecutive years on the server, it has no meaning whether you have a tag next to your name or not, the impression you make is everything.
Based on this analysis I find the very defining of someone as an "independent" or "faction player" as preposterous. To me, an independent is a freelancer or a mercenary. A faction player would be a Red Hessian. The Varyag to me is a member of the faction as much as I am, because he commands the necessary respect. A pewpew newbie who decides to go on a killing spree in a RH cruiser with no RP whatsoever will be declared an insane commander and promptly apprehended. Does anyone see my point, or am I straying here?
I think, generally, there are a few factions being overbearing, and a few indies being horrid, and in each group, there's two or three real crusaders who have hard line politics on the issue, and one or two more blokes who just want to incite flames. The flame inciting group needs to be put down, and the hard liners need to then come to the table. This discussion will be fine, until someone stops being reasonable. Once one single person does that, it will collapse, because the hard liners will feel the need to retaliate, and then their milder supporters the need to defend them.
Another thing about indies is, that their RP is very, very easily buried, simply because they are soo much smaller than a faction. A faction's RP gets quickly disseminated to at least 5 people, who will then be voicepeices for that RP...an indie has only himself....it isn't enough for the rp to exist, it has to be accepted..and if we don't see it, we cannot accept it.
Interesting post - and i would say with a certain amount of Validity.
There are a few things i would take issue with - firstly the idea that leaders are by nature respected, and even then, that they earned their position or furthermore, that once there they are somehow beyond reproach.
That simply isnt true, while many "leaders" do have their power due to merits, many do not and owe it to position, money, nepotism, and others just by pure luck. Respect is earned, and even then, as anyone who actually leads knows (and i do, in real life) you never rest on your laurels, you are constantly being observed by those beneath you and its owe so easy to lose that all so fickle respect.
There is another underlying assumption here that factions make which Dusty has alluded to in his post referring to the RM. That is their assumption that they ARE an NPC faction and anyone operating in said faction that isnt part of their auspices is somehow "wrong" - renegade, theif, whatever label they choose to put on it. Argue against it as you will, but this is a monopoly of power and blatantly domineering, and if enforced and enacted it by definition tries to control the RP of other players. Certain Factions need to realise that whilst they do indeed have a special and influencial place on the server, and indeed, a greater voice - they are not THE server. They are worthy of respect of course, their roles as mentors of how the server works, Role play conventions, and just how to BE a player of a chosen NPC faction are invaluable. However, they need to see that despite all that, there are players who will simply want to do their own thing, and yes, fly the ship they like - some of these players, granted are troublemakers, but many, and i suspect the majority - are not interested in causing trouble and are quite happy to get along (they just want to fly a battleship and not join your faction). Some factions inability to be flexible in this way of thinking, and their insistance on "Our way or the highway" is a leading contributer to the idea of division here.
I have many characters on the server, but only two are in factions. My Corsair character is, in my opinion, an example of how an indie can WORK - he will never ever join a faction, though he has been thrown a recruiting pitch once or twice - and he is argumentative with the existing factions - yet, he respects them, and they him and he even sits on the "Corsair council of Elders". Whilst they have their issues the corsair factions (which when i joined were the TBH and the Benitez) gave me a chance and let my char develop - (in a cap ship and all) Kudos to them for handling a newb indie in a capship so well.
The XA - of which i am glad to be a member - is another example of indie management, join if you will, and if you do, know the rules, but if you don't want to - fine.... As one of only two Xenos flying gunboats and holding a terrorist ID, i've had nothing but support from that faction, who, by all rights, could've jumped up and down and said "NO! we're the official Xeno faction, do it our way or we'll fire on you".
Due Credit also to the QCRF - who also didnt mind a new brettonian gunship:)Well handled.
This whole thing for me boils down to A: respect, and B: Tolerance - All sides in this division could use a little more of both sometimes.
Nonmilitary faction, no faction with RP to support capital control: No restrictions
Nonmilitary faction, faction with RP to support capital control: Abide by restrictions, unless rogue or with exceptional RP
Military faction, no faction: No restrictions
Military faction, nonunilateral faction: No restrictions
Unilateral military faction: Can potentially be incorporated in strange cases, but generally, join the faction.
And on that matter, if you don't want these restrictions, oppose any faction naming and structuring unilaterally, e.g. "Rheinland Military" with "Grosseadmirals/Kanzler".