So Scrap Metal

[Karst]

Edit: The long version: Xoria popped in, made some "price revisions and debugging", and then disappeared again.

Okay, stating this in the calmest manner possible: scrap mining was rather broken when 87 came out. People noticed this very soon, and began making suggestions on how to deal with it.
Then field drain got removed, and scrap mining became REALLY broken. The Pequena Negra was never empty, but what could have been a cool activity driver didn't work that way because it was pretty much risk-free.
But instead of addressing that underlying issue, a quick and dirty fix of nerfing the drop rates was implemented.
Better than nothing I guess, though it pretty much eliminated Burgundy due to its low density.

Finally, approaching update 6, and we hear scrap is being reworked. Junkers and ALG rejoice, the irony of what this entails not yet known to us.
Xoria waltzes in and turns it off completely.
After 5 previous updates of scrap-related activity, in game and on forums, after the people that actually do this evaluate how best to fix what had been poorly balanced since 87 came out, the solution presented is just to "turn it off"?

I think I speak for all Junkers and ALG who have been mining scrap when I say that's a pretty crappy solution.
This isn't some random, replaceable commodity. It forms a major part of the activities of two factions going back to vanilla lore. What's been done here wasn't carefully evaluated re-balancing, it was ham-handed destruction of what had the potential to be a good activity driver.
There's plenty of Junkers and ALG out there that I'm certain would be interested in giving their thoughts on what could be changed to make scrap work better, and many times have.
But as it seems to happen quite often, decisions that have a major effect on a minority of players simply aren't communicated at all.

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[Ponge]

Lore is not considered around here; all ALG and Junker should haul ore now.

Joke aside, I agree with Karst, and I really hope this is a temporary thing until the fix is implemented (as Kazinsal said, prices can now be modified server side, so no wait is necessary till update7 to get it fixed).

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[Jack_Henderson]

Seriously... am I the only one that is not surprised that it got roflstomped? An activity that can be done solo, risk-free, on a near-5k transport, with very good payment...

The fix should be: Make it a proper mining commodity.

That would mean:

> max solo mining ship: 2700 cargo space + paper thin armor + crappy laning (Hegemon-style)
> solo mining: heavily discouraged
> group actvity: heavily encouraged
> trip length: 5-7 systems
> trip danger levels: 2 bottleneck systems
> selling destinations: main House systems
> price tag: ~ 9-10k / unit (like all other ores atm).

Basically, summed up: Same as all other mining.

Have you taken a look what solo-scrap mining did to all other mining factions that actually need cooperation and players to be online together? I did. So, even though the nerf seems to have fucked it up too much (as all nerfing seems), at least it does not hurt cooperative efforts any more and does not buff solo activity any more.

Therefore: Even the field. Make it the same sort of mining.

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[Karst]

Basically, summed up: Same as all other mining.

This is something I really don't want for scrap. For premium scrap, that would make more sense, as it's already balanced in that direction (only much worse).
Regular scrap should be more localized than that, because unlike rare ores, it doesn't make sense to be hauling scrap all across Sirius. It wouldn't be that hard to change it to two or three jumps (Texas and Munich to Dortmund, Texas and NL to Invergordon, for example), will giving it a price that's higher than a comparable trade run but lower than genuine ore.

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[Karst]

Is any of this up for discussion? Like, is it in any way relevant what those that are actually affected by economy changes actually think?
Or is it just going to be that, as it has been so many times before, the ones that are affected are simply presented with "oh, you've brought up some pretty good points, which we didn't read. So we're going to go ahead with the 'get screwed' routine"

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[larzac]

There are two things to do to balance scrap today i think:
First: Set good price ( 1500 on a hessian base... what a joke), I would say come back to price that there was in texas for higher sell point.
Second: Do two separate sell point for ALG and Junkers, as said Karst, Dresden is fine for ALG and Inverness for Junkers.
I speak only for "normal", for prenium scrap, it's fine, even if the price is a little low when you see how much times it needs to go in Alpha from texas.

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[Highland Laddie]

Make Invergordon buy Scrap for 2900/ea. Decent middle ground.

[.Gypsy.]

Yeah this really through me off, I always scrapped when I had nothing to do, now that its gone I've barley played since it happened. I agree with Karst and others, put the scrap price back were it was and make Dresden and Inverness sell points.

Premium scrap (is NOT fine) has been useless since I've been back, if the journey is gonna be that long, raise the sell price big time, it could also use another sell point. Talk about a ridiculous over reaction :/ (fix solaris gunboat turrets too pls)

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[Moberg]

I do not think scrap metal should even have half of the profit ores make. Their mining and selling should be on the same level of artifacts at most.
There's another case with premium scrap however. It is obviously more valuable but still - it shouldn't be as valuable as an ore. A little more valuable than a smuggling commodity maybe, but overall I see no reason why scrap should be buffed to be on one level with ores.

Besides, if it is about ALG becoming more attractive, I'd say you are already on a pretty good level. Trade with 5kers in every house (1 of that allows only for limited trade, but better than nothing), good diplomacy, custom transport, etc).
Junkers might need one or two perks more, but I've never really been interested in them as an NPC faction to look closer.

The proposed sellprices about Inverness and Dortmund sound fine to me, no objections regarding that.

[Bubba2x4]

Premium scrap would be fine the way it is, IF the sell price in alpha was buffed up to 8-10k. It must be mined, and hauled on the long and dangerous route to outcast territory, only group convoys make sense for a route like that.

Regular scrap should be mined quicker, and hauled a shorter and somewhat less dangerous route into rheinland, selling for 3-4k, making solo feasible, but not ideal.

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