About the Number of Factions

[Drake]

Once again I'll say there's no way to limit unofficial factions without limiting the freedom of independent (non-faction) characters. People can fly for whatever NPC faction they like, with whatever other members of that factions they like, and that's not going to change. You seem to be advocating required membership in official factions if you want to play a member of a particular NPC faction, and that just isn't going to happen here. And as long as you can play as an independent member of an NPC faction, you can group up with other members of that NPC faction and decide to fly together.

[Ayem]

Humans need structures, rules and such, they can lean on, they can rely on, too much freedom is no
good for humans, most just can't handle it.

I did read the quote in the other thread, but I disagree emphatically with this. Just because people aren't used to life without rules doesn't mean that they need them. The greater the number of rules that are inflicted on people, the more restricted they are in their development. You may want everyone to be thoughtful, respectful and obey all the laws- but to attempt to force it by increasing the number of laws will often generate the opposite effect. People will start breaking rules simply because they're there. Also, if someone is not cognizant of a law should they still be punished under the full force of it? When you have a rule book five hundred pages thick should there be a death penalty for the offence listed on page four hundred and eighty three, paragraph two, line twelve: "And there shall be no looking askance at red bearded gentlemen on a thursday, for it is dangerous and like to cause offence. Therefore the perpetrator of this crime shall be lashed with the whip until death as an example to all those who look askance at red bearded gentlemen on a thursday."

Layering up the rules will just lead to the point where the "rules lawyers" we have on the server won't just be mocked, they'll be hired, because they're the only ones who understand the system anymore.

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[Reverend Del]

Not going to limit unofficial factions, it's a logistical nightmare at best, an absolute clustershag at worst.

The limitation of freedom is also a big no-no. We don't password the server we won't be limiting unofficial factions right to exist. If they continually cross our desks we'll take them down, but unless they do keep breaking rules we won't touch them.

The last time I suggested a spring cleaning of all official factions I got lynched, publically and brutally. Some of the official factions don't want to be re-judged for various reasons. And without the threat of having official status removed there is no incentive to clean up any faults.

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Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.

[beander2]

The last time I suggested a spring cleaning of all official factions I got lynched, publically and brutally. Some of the official factions don't want to be re-judged for various reasons. And without the threat of having official status removed there is no incentive to clean up any faults.

This disturbs me, to be frank. I don't actually remember the situation you're talking about Del, but I think a periodic review of official factions is quite appropriate. We do participate in a community, after all, and if we aren't willing to submit our activities for community feedback, critique, suggestions for improvement, AND affirmation, then we really shouldn't be here. A community is a place where we commit to improving ourselves and each other. If official factions can't handle this, perhaps some time as "unofficial" would do them some good.

Unofficial groups could stand to do the same. No penalties, no censure (except for server rule violations and trampling on others' RP), but they should seek out feedback from others on the server. And I don't mean the buddies they came here with, but more established players who themselves have earned a measure of respect from the community. If we're going to name ourselves a community, let's be mature enough to act like one (and that means everybody, not just the new players).

Edit: As far as the number of unofficial factions goes (oh yeah, the topic...), I would not suggest bureaucracy for this. Rather, let's communicate on who's doing what, and let's be constructive enough not to overload particular segments that should - in RP - be smaller than others, while neglecting those that should be larger. People need to do their homework, ask around, refer to Del's unofficial faction thread, etc. Surely there's a way for folks to do something their interested in while contributing to the overall balance of the server's RP. If not, I doubt it's a server/community problem as much as a failure of imagination.

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Sir Alisdair Buchanan, KBE ~ Gateway)Trafalgar

[Xing]

Not going to limit unofficial factions, it's a logistical nightmare at best, an absolute clustershag at worst.

The limitation of freedom is also a big no-no. We don't password the server we won't be limiting unofficial factions right to exist. If they continually cross our desks we'll take them down, but unless they do keep breaking rules we won't touch them.

The last time I suggested a spring cleaning of all official factions I got lynched, publically and brutally. Some of the official factions don't want to be re-judged for various reasons. And without the threat of having official status removed there is no incentive to clean up any faults.

It is exactly because they do not want to be re-judged that I request this.
I'm not asking this so every factions can feel a little wave of ego boost or whatever to see a confirmation their faction is well loved by the community. That's not the point at all.

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[worldstrider]

My new "faction" is simply an rp device that's part of my character's story and background.

Please don't go back to the "Nazi Discovery" that used to be here. it's very nice right now.

I think requiring that a player tag requires a post explaining it is a great idea and requiring a feedback thread for it. No problems there.

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[mwerte]

Offical factions don't like to come up for "review" for several reasons, the most important one being they've made political enemies here (no suprise, humans love conflict and everybody has their own viewpoint) so having to submit for review is seen as "indulging the whiners" whether they be correct or not.

And, most faction leaders (speaking from experiance here) already have more then enough to do, and don't have the time/inclination to re-do the whole faction status post and babysit the thread for the next weeks. It's a lot of work. To much work for a game?

The Feedback Forum ('Whine Here') is more then enough.

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[worldstrider]

Offical factions don't like to come up for "review" for several reasons, the most important one being they've made political enemies here (no suprise, humans love conflict and everybody has their own viewpoint) so having to submit for review is seen as "indulging the whiners" whether they be correct or not.

And, most faction leaders (speaking from experiance here) already have more then enough to do, and don't have the time/inclination to re-do the whole faction status post and babysit the thread for the next weeks. It's a lot of work. To much work for a game?

The Feedback Forum ('Whine Here') is more then enough.

Surprisingly...I actually completely agree with this.

I think there is ONE circumstance that warrants review of factions and that is when enough genuinely serious problems have reached admins regarding them that they can be re-opened for public comment and an admin ruling afterwards.

One caveat--I think a proven attempt to make false accusations by one faction against another (lying, faked screens, ooc collaborations) to discredit a faction's official status should result in serious punishment of the offending faction--as in perhaps they are required to fork over credits to the faction they slighted.

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[beander2]

Offical factions don't like to come up for "review" for several reasons, the most important one being they've made political enemies here (no suprise, humans love conflict and everybody has their own viewpoint) so having to submit for review is seen as "indulging the whiners" whether they be correct or not.

And, most faction leaders (speaking from experiance here) already have more then enough to do, and don't have the time/inclination to re-do the whole faction status post and babysit the thread for the next weeks. It's a lot of work. To much work for a game?

The Feedback Forum ('Whine Here') is more then enough.

Well, I don't think I speak from ignorance on this, mwerte. Official faction review doesn't have to work this way at all. It can be a publicized period of community feedback, after which, if serious issues are raised, the admins work with faction leadership to address them. I don't see how it needs to involve all the work you're suggesting, unless a faction actually needs that kind of renovation.

As far as "indulging the whiners," if you really feel that all feedback is akin to whining, and that you have nothing to learn from the community, just step down now. I don't have much patience for that kind of dismissive attitude.

Oh, and I think folks here (esp. the admins) are for the most part smart enough to tell the subtantive feedback from the merely political. In fact, I'd wager there are plenty of people who have critiques or suggestions who feel intimidated by the factions, not vice versa. This type of thing would allow them to speak up more freely.

As to Tinkerbell's last post, I agree, especially on the point of an explanation post so others know what unofficial groups are up to. Much easier to interact with them that way.

Edit: Tink posted while I was writing. I agree with your last paragraph, but I don't think people - if taken seriously - whine as much as they're accused of.

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Sir Alisdair Buchanan, KBE ~ Gateway)Trafalgar

[Athenian]

I can see several problems with a publicized period of community feedback, and I call it fondly the "squeaky wheel" approach to game-play. Behold the many/few who do find reason after reason to lambast directly or indirectly the gameplay of others. Several people in the community apparently bear personal grudges against other players - for a variety of reasons, none of which, in my experience, reflects well on the mental health of those bearing said grudges. Are we to be judged by our peers or the admins or the forum trolls?

The faction feedback threads are remarkably quiet - no news is good news, I imagine.

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Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
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