This "official sovereignty" thing is a bit misleading. For all intents and purposes, yes, the GMG does have sovereignty over Okinawa. However, it's not because that's what the infocard says, it's because of the IC actions of players on both sides. So the end result is the same as the intention by the infocard writer, but this is one of the things that you can't dictate to the players. Sure, the players will reference the infocards to figure out how their characters should act, but there is no obligation for the characters to go along with what the infocards say.
Anyways...
There is simply no way (besides intense warmongering on both sides) that this would ever turn into open conflict between the GMG and Kusari. GMG blow up their gas miners? They'd be denying them to Kusari and taking the rest of Sirius down with them, sure, but they'd also be shooting themselves in the head. And all the houses use H-Fuel, not just Liberty and Kusari, though Rheinland and Bretonia use MOX more heavily because they are short of H-Fuel. The Kusari government has no operations in Okinawa, and claims sovereignty in the loosest sense, like Bretonia does with Orkney. They wouldn't gain anything by invading, and would potentially lose a lot.
Also, Kishiro's not going to become broke from losing their Okinawa operations. They'll face a big loss of course, and it's going to hurt, but it's not crippling.
Anyways, the most likely outcome I see is that the GMG pushes the Kusari government about Okinawa, Kusari basically says "fine, have your system" and throws them a bone, and relations between the two groups sour a bit. Samura gets more funding to work on the Hokkaido gas mining project. And when the war with Bretonia ends, Kusari takes a closer look at the GMG.
' Wrote:Also, Kishiro's not going to become broke from losing their Okinawa operations. They'll face a big loss of course, and it's going to hurt, but it's not crippling.
Well first, the infocards are meant to be the Starting place for the role play. At the moment, GMG has sovereignty. We start off on that foot, then KNF does what it can to get control.
About Kishiro;
Yes, they will go broke. As said in the infocards, Interspace Commerce helped fund the mining operations in Okinawa, asl well as all construction. Kishiro and GMG both are in debt to IC. They are planning to pay this debt off through trading concessions and having most trade going through Furyoku (taxed by IC). If the Kusari Government takes over the mining operations, Kishiro no longer has those profits coming in. They lose the money they spent, and they are going to be in debt to IC, and they won't be able to pay that debt off without selling off their bases. Its a loan that they are paying back overtime. If the operations fail, they've gotta pay it off with cash. Kishiro doesn't have the cash for it. Thats why IC is funding the project.
Kishiro risked a lot on Okinawa. If they fail, they go bankrupt. If they succeed, they will become real rivals to Samura and will rake in a lot of cash and increase their political power, as well as strengthen their alliance with GMG.
' Wrote:From what I can tell, you are doing this in a role play sense. Death was just making sure people knew mod facts and history of the system while doing this RP, because the responses we saw in the RP thread seemed to point towards people thinking that Okinawa actually IS part of the Kusari Empire in a mod sense, which it isn't. Its currently GMG sovereignty.
Well, As I said, sovereignty means nothing if the people who you want to be sovereign from dont recognize it. Also, while everyone seems to think the GMG is this might powerful thing, they are in fact not. They are a company, the reason they won the 80 years war was not due to them being more powerful then the Rhinlanders, it has mainly to do with the fact that they could hide in Honshu under the protection of the Kusari. It would be a fairly small matter for a KNF battlefleet to come in and wipe out the what? 5 bases the GMG have? Kusari is not rhienland, we know all about fighting in the Gas clouds and nebula's.
Lastly, I would like to say how disappointed I am that instead of doing this in-rp as we were doing, it has become an OORP conversation...kudos.
This OORP conversation is an OORP mod fact thread. Simply put, I wasn't sure the players understood that the GMG claimed Okinawa. Furthermore, not recognizing GMG's sovereignty over Okinawa is one thing, but to claim that Okinawa is part of the Kusari empire without a foothold in the system is another. It is the latter I was concerned with... but clearly these are Kusari's intentions.
Very well, let the throne and Guild Masters roleplay this out.
You're attempting to use this OOC discussion to bolster your IC point, and get community support and forum sympathy behind the GMG's point of view. I'm all for discussing the game and the story, but please don't mix IC and OOC like this.
Jien, you can ignore the GMG sovereignty in Okinawa all you want, but you can't claim it as part of Kusari without doing proper RP to back it up. You're making claims without going through the steps required to allow you to do it. There is not a single KNF NPC in Okinawa. To try to claim it, you are going to have to go through a lot of extensive RP. Gaining sovereignty over an already-controlled system isn't as easy as just saying so.
And Hawkwings, this isn't trying to garner sympathy for GMG. I'm not even in GMG. This thread is here because it seemed like people were dismissing facts when RPing and acting as if the history and current situation of this system no longer applied and they could fabricate a new version of it to suit their needs.
The Emperor of Kusari can say pretty much whatever he wants, I think. How he backs that up is the next step. You've gotta start RP somewhere, and words happen to be a great way to do so.
Anyways, I'm sure that everyone here is well aware that Okinawa is practically owned by the GMG, and IC and Kishiro have interests there. I can sympathize with you for seeing us players "ignoring" the written infocards for Okinawa, but as I see it, that's just us familiarizing ourselves with the situation in Okinawa, and pushing it in different ways to see how it works out. Nothing wrong with that.
Well it looks like an out of character thread was made.....
Well IC or OOC you will not find me budging. As long as GMG| is in my hands we will continue to represent the GMG ID according to the infocards to the best of our abilities. Since 280 A.S. GMG has been sovereign from Kusari. This has been a part of Freelancer since the creation of the game. I will continue to roleplay the stubborn prideful way. There is nothing at all that hints that Kusari would just come over and make inane declarations and there is nothing at all that hints that GMG would just rollover. Nothing short of pure full out victorious confilct will wrest GMG space away from their control. Every scrap of info shows that GMG does indeed have the experience, ships, and resources to defend it's space and as such we as a player faction will do precisely that. GMG shattered decimated the entire Rheinland fleet, not with any KNF ships. It was perfectly clear in-game that KNF did not send warships they helped covertly as an ally would that didn't want to upset another friend. Kusari didn't protect us directly themselves. Aomari was GMG sovereign nearly 200 years before the 80 year war. GMG jumped to Honshu just as the forces of another group would fall back to another on of their own bases in the adjacent system. This has been like this both on infocards and in-game RP for quite a long time. We have had several threads that brought up the issue of GMG's sovereignty and I didn't see you posting on their. Instead you pop up out of no-where, ignore what's writtens and RP'd, and say "this is mine". You call that your RP all the while thinking I gotta respect such a weak attempt to put our backs against the wall and roll over. Heh sorry bud, not likely.
Samura doesn't make even a fraction of what you need. Their incomplete operation only has 3 miners in use and even Samura admits that they are nowhere near to the efficiacy of the ones Kishiro built for GMG. MOX only fuels Battlships and Space Stations. We rely on one primary commodity but without that commodity the basic needs of mankind like water and food doesn't make it to the bases and planets that don't have their own. If it came down to conflict GMG would shutdown their ends of the JGs and go back to travelling the JH's they spent centuries mapping. Kusari would be cutoff of their fuel source and their ships left docked (unfortunately game mechanics don't allow this, it would be interesting if the admins could place the H-fuel using warships and tradeships in the Bastille to simulate the affect). It takes several months to fly to the Sigmas without gate technology. But by then Bretonia would already have taken advantage of the situation and would probably be pushing half-way through the Taus with many of their advance scouts skirmishing in the heart of Kusari itself.
A war on many fronts would no doubt re-invigorate the BD who would no doubt take the opportunity to try and take the throne, no doubt with GC support. Kusari doesn't use hired gaijins but you can expect GMG to do just that. If all looked so bad that GMG looks like it would lose their miners, yes you can be down right absolutely sure that these grudgeholding prideful miners will blow them up and leave the KNF fleet stranded in the Sigmas to be picked off slowly while Kusari internal enemies (again BD) wreck havoc to supply line attempts. By now where would BAF be?
GMG hasn't felt the need to give up it's independance in the past when everything was peaceful and cozy, why would that change when you are involved in far more pressing problems?
' Wrote:Jien, you can ignore the GMG sovereignty in Okinawa all you want, but you can't claim it as part of Kusari without doing proper RP to back it up. You're making claims without going through the steps required to allow you to do it. There is not a single KNF NPC in Okinawa. To try to claim it, you are going to have to go through a lot of extensive RP. Gaining sovereignty over an already-controlled system isn't as easy as just saying so.
And Hawkwings, this isn't trying to garner sympathy for GMG. I'm not even in GMG. This thread is here because it seemed like people were dismissing facts when RPing and acting as if the history and current situation of this system no longer applied and they could fabricate a new version of it to suit their needs.
First off, thats Emperor Kogen to you. Second, You have created this issue but not listening to any of the feedback on this. To create a system that the KNF is supposedly not supposed to go that is connected to one of it's major planets by a tradelane is asinine. It creates a situation that is completely intolerable for a House to have to deal with. The fact that you have created a system that doesnt stand up to a test of logical reasoning, makes trying to rp anything having to do with it a very hard task. Do you really think the Kusari government would stand for a system it has no control over, where it's enemies base to be connected with a tradelane and Jumpgate to one of it's major planets? No house would allow that tradelane and jumpgate to be built. Add to that, the fact that in your story line for the system, the Kusari are supposed to be happy about the fact that Okinawa is developing? Hogwash. Utter Hogwash. The idea that the Kusari Government would stand by for a decade and allow this to develop outside it's control is preposterous. These are the reasons I guess we have to have an OOC conversation about this system yet again.
Lastly, I can ignore the GMG sovereignty over the system all I want. You have given us no reason not, as all the feedback you have been given has amounted to a hill of beans.
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