BH can only take non-criminal bounties--i.e., "lawful". It's conceivable that a bounty within Kusari by a semi-lawful house could be executed by the BH there.
Junkers could theoretically offer the BH a bounty within Liberty on criminals there--but would they? The stigma associated for both sides really makes this unlikely except in the most egregious of cases--as in Mon'star raiding Junkers or the like.
Almost all criminal IDs allow them to execute unlawful bounties as does the freelancer and merc ID. I think these are the ones most likely to be employed by "quasi-lawfuls".
Liberty Rogues could offer a bounty on Mon-star but I don't think BH could legally execute or collect on it as they are a known criminal group.
In my view it comes down to "What is a lawful/unlawful bounty?" Is it a contract offered by a criminal that makes it unlawful or is it only unlawful if it is to be fulfilled against a non-criminal? In the case of quasi-lawfuls, I think their has to be a little of both.
So kind of a judgment call there. I do think BH should be strongly cautious of accepting such bounties without good cause simply for their reputation's sake. And a BH essentially executing a Junker for "being a Junker" in front of house authorities isn't something I think most governments would go for--smacks very much of "ethnic cleansing". What if Synthfoods gets bountied by the AFA or LWB? Can the BH blow up Synthfoods ships in Liberty? I think not. Are Junkers different as an accepted element by lawfuls?
This particular bounty that you're referring to has been the point of discussion between and amongst the guildmasters. It'd be a much easier mosquito to ignore if Junker npc's weren't hardwired to attack BHG ships on sight. So effectively the RP that Junkers want to kill BHG, regardless of what house they happen to be in, or where they are, in built into the game.
(And can lead to some amusing incidents, especially down in Omega 15, when a lone CSV starts to attack a battlecruiser...)
The Junker ID states:
Quote:Junker ID
Pilot carrying this ID is a Junker, who:
* Can trade and escort smugglers
* Can demand credits or cargo from traders and unallied smugglers or factions
* Can fulfill bounty contracts
* Can engage pirates, terrorists and lawfuls within their Zone of Influence
* Can participate in unlawful actions against all non-Gallia corporations
* Cannot ally with any lawfuls except:
o Against the Hogosha or Xeno Terrorists
o With Gallia lawfuls
* Cannot land on any bases belonging to Kusari factions except for Golden Chrysanthemum and Blood Dragon bases
* Cannot use any transport with more than 4,300 cargo
* The Junker ID does not make you immune to piracy; pirates may choose at their discretion whether to exempt you from being pirated.
Benjamin, your confusion is that while the Junkers Congress certainly is a legal faction, as you can see abo,Junkers in and of themselves are NOT a lawful faction in Sirius. In Gallia, they may be lawful, but Bounty Hunters (and basically everyone else) are unwelcome in Gallia.
If I may refresh the memory of everyone, the BAF posted a bounty upon Kusari ships that were in Bretonian space. It was determined that this was a good (as in legal and acceptable) bounty, even though both parties are lawful. Now we have a bounty upon a group that is, at absolutely best, somewhat on the shady side of things. Since the Bounty Hunters Guild has very little dealings actually IN Kusari space, quite frankly it can easily slip their attention that a group that is allowed to ally with the Kusari military might not be lawful.
Quote:Farmers Alliance ID
Pilot carrying this ID is a member of the Farmers Alliance, who:
* Can trade and escort traders
* Can fulfill bounty contracts
* Can demand credits or cargo from non-Samura traders and unallied smugglers or factions
* Can engage pirates, terrorists and lawfuls within their Zone of Influence
* Cannot ally with any lawfuls except with KNF, KSP and Samura
* Cannot attack Samura, KNF or KSP ships
It sure looks like Junkers are even more unlawful that the Farmers are, just based upon their ID's. Heck, even in our Skype chats as guildmasters, we didn't realize until someone dug in more that that there could be issues with this bounty. Our characters - and our guild - was primarily acting on the information that we have gathered in game and through our limited interactions with the parties involved. Not accepting the bounty would be meta-gaming, because without knowing any better - why should we act any other way?
(I'm just being a bit of devil's advocate here on this, just to point out how other reasoning could occur. That there is bad blood between Junkers and Bounty Hunters is a given - go sit outside Houston for more than 2 minutes when the player load isn't too high, and I guarantee you'll be attacked by 2 - 3 npc's junkers. We've caught Junkers smuggling many times in the past. There's a reason for us to accept this bounty.)
Definitely, of course, mercs can accept this bounty. They take the one given by unlawfuls upon bounty hunters. And it's only on the Junkers Congress ships, not on all Junkers indiscriminately. I see this really as being no different than the Bretonian bounty on Kusari ships in Bretonian space. Not saying that I'm going to try to claim it - but money is money. A hunter - worrying about his reputation? Our reputation is tainted if we FAIL to collect on a bounty that we've accepted - not on whether we should've taken the bounty in the first place.
(11-21-2013, 12:53 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.
Whilst not accepting the bounty might be metagaming, it could still potentially be a sanctionable offence, so you can't do these things with no regard to oorp knowledge. Plus, you make a point that junkers as a whole are unlawful, whereas the congress are lawful, yet later on make a point about how this bounty is fine because it specifically only targets the congress. To be honest, judging a faction based on what its NPCs do doesn't work, because NPC FA are just straight terrorists. It's inconsistent.
It would be more like the bretonian bounty if it was for collecting on kusari ships in kusari space, and you had an ID that said you couldn't claim lawful bounties.
While you make good points Agamen, I don't see it saying that Junkers are unlawful. I have seen Junkers fighting the law outside Houston as you have said, then again, I've seen BH fighting lawful vessels in New London (refusing to drop pilots I believe).
It does say on the Junker ID that they CANNOT ally with lawfuls but what does it say on the Vigilantes?
I would remind you that I have no access to FL currently so am unable to check (you can lie your backside off if you like!).
The BAF posted bounties on Kusari ships in Bretonia. A lawful faction declaring an enemy as legal targets within their borders.
The same is valid vice versa.
Now we have a faction who also cannot ally with lawfuls (except in Kusari) offers a bounty, Sirius wide on a group which is considered legal everywhere EXCEPT Kusari and it's considered viable by bounty hunters who incidentally are not allowed to ally themselves with unlawful factions...seems to me to be verging on double standards. This is only my thoughts as I percieve it which is why I asked the question originally, by the way.
Incidentally, are BH allowed to operate freely in Kusari?
I would now point out that I have seen Junkers working closely with the LN in Texas, clearing up after any unfortunate 'incidents' regarding blockade runners from Rheinland and returning any lost cargo to the authorities for evidence on Houston. *cough*
All that aside, your last two paragraphs.
The 'Bad Blood' does entitle you to be more suspicous of Junkers, definately. Suspicion shouldn't always mean death.
Yes, spot on. This is definately for the Mercs and Freelancers among you.
A hunter worrying about his reputation?
Absolutely. This forum is littered with BH bragging about that very thing - and good for them. His reputaion is everything. A bad reputation will stop you claiming work from any lawful institution in the future if you go round murdering people because of 'bad blood'. Whats more, as has been stated earlier, the hunter would become the hunted, should his misdemeanor be uncovered.......
I tend to follow Tinkerbells vision more.
The only ammendment I would make is that if I were a Junker hauling a legitimate cargo and was killed by a BH in a house system, I WOULD place a bounty on the killers head, assuming I could prove him responsible. (Screenshots etc). I believe whats more, that would make it a 'lawful' bounty.
Hehe--we are a twisted and convoluted folk...good points.
If a Junker pirated someone and a bounty is offered--no problem. IF a Junker group advocated piracy or smuggling as an admitted public policy and had been caught doing so--no problem.
But lets say Joe Junker is a Shriner clown. He kills a Kusari (Japanese) cop. In heated retaliation the Cops in Kusari (Japan) offer a bounty on ALL Shriner clowns around the world. So the next televised Macy's Day parade in New York City is interrupted when jack-booted bounty hunters jump out of the crowds of kids and start gunning down Shriner clowns in their little cars. The police stand by and say, "Nothing we can do kids--its a lawful bounty." I call it more of a political incident where house politics will collide.
Take it a step further--as a result of the incident, Kusari opens a bounty on all Junkers. Will Rheinland police and Liberty and Bretonian ones stand by while Junkers not associated with any related crime are executed in the public square?
Just some things to consider--a clown is a terrible thing to waste.
Junkers are everyone's friends.
And everyone's enemy.
Anyone can attack a Junker and justify it somehow within RP.
Bounty hunter kills Junker, he may not be very welcome on Junker bases from then on.
Pirate kills Junker, he may not be very welcome on Junker bases from then on.
Essentially it's this. Junkers are power players in a sense. If a small group or individual attacks the Junkers, they can steamroll him by making him unwelcome nearly everywhere or just attack him.
If a larger group does it, they have an issue.
Junkers are semi-lawful. That means lawful and unlawful, mixed. You can attack them from any side but beware of the Roleplay consequences.