' Wrote:Not to mention the SF and KNF neglect their war. KNF and SF do not fight.. SF just sits and shoots NPCs in Tau-31. Both factions have shot at each other only once or twice to my knowledge.
That's because KNF and SF discussed that any fighting between SF and KNF (if desired) would occur in the Taus, KNF stays out Bretonia, SF stays out of Kusari, either wants a fight they head to Tau. Makes for a clean RP fight. Reason for no action, KNF have had so many things keeping them busy in Honshu at the moment that the SF has been left alone, which suits us fine we'll do our thing with the NPCs and the other players currently assisting the Kusari side of the war.
' Wrote:That's because KNF and SF discussed that any fighting between SF and KNF (if desired) would occur in the Taus, KNF stays out Bretonia, SF stays out of Kusari, either wants a fight they head to Tau. Makes for a clean RP fight. Reason for no action, KNF have had so many things keeping them busy in Honshu at the moment that the SF has been left alone, which suits us fine we'll do our thing with the NPCs and the other players currently assisting the Kusari side of the war.
...or,
We could just cede leadership and control of ALL Factions to Dab.
He'd have the trains running on time in a heartbeat.
Right, Dabbo?
(Note: The above post was NOT a HarleyCo production, but does contain gratuitous irony.)
We could just cede leadership and control of ALL Factions to Dab.
He'd have the trains running on time in a heartbeat.
Right, Dabbo?
(Note: The above post was NOT a HarleyCo production, but does contain gratuitous irony.)
Mal's back. Oh, drek!
The low toned hum of the 'machine' turns into a high pitched whine...targetting lasers center mass on the torso of Malaclypse. With mechanistic precision and speed the machine lets loose with puff pasteries making a sickening 'whup whup whup' sound. The projectiles fly inches over Dab's left shoulder and find their target in mid sentence. The machine continues i'ts barrage, drawing from a magical hopper that never runs dry of sweet stickiness. Malaclypse's open mouth is filled first, then face. The pastries continue to pile up around him. In less than a minute all that one can see of Malaclypse is a hand sticking out of a pastry mound.
As suddenly as it began, the machine was back in standby mode. Evil looking red lazer turned off and indicator pulsing a pale green. Somewhere outside birds chirp. Yngen lets loose a fart. Everyone starts laughing and digs Mal out.
In my opinion I think we should all just stick with one faction. We all heard those rumors about people in different factions and when their leaders ask for some help they switch over to their character on hostile terms with their leaders faction and blow em up.:angry:
' Wrote:In my opinion I think we should all just stick with one faction. We all heard those rumors about people in different factions and when their leaders ask for some help they switch over to their character on hostile terms with their leaders faction and blow em up.:angry:
That was just Supernova.... I have not heard anyone else do it.
Dab, Dab, Dab. We aren't neglecting it. We're saying it is a very, um, interesting turn of events that we don't want to pursue unless it is in the Tau systems.
And we can be allied with whomever we want, lad. If I can spin a cunning tale, I'll spin it, and if that means I can become allied with the Phantoms, for instance, I'd do it. Whenever you become the Ambassador of the Kusari Naval Forces or of the Sirius Federation, you can lament the situation. Until that time, however, please kindly do not criticize my RP, my faction's (Nadir's faction, actually) RP, the SF's RP, etc. You'll find it is all well written, well thought-out, and entirely organic. Nothing I do, RP-wise, is explicitly against the RP Herr Igiss set up for us. It's just altering it as we see fit.
And again, we're allowed to do that, no?
Now, nothing above can be considered a flame. That was positively inert. I am simply voicing my opinion. So please, do not be offended by my words, Dab, as there was no malice intended. Just friendly 'please don't step on my toes' banter.
Now, Liberty and Kusari should be allies, no? We share many principles, and Ageira is all the envy to the Kusari corporations. We see Liberty as being a viable source of friendship, and whether or not that means having a technical truce with the SF won't impede me. I also am pursuing a treaty with the RM. Does that mean that, because of their alliance with the SF, I shouldn't be allowed to?
If this is so, then I must apologize for not caring. I understand that the RP Herr Igiss writes in is superb, but I also expect the same basic abilities when it comes to diplomacy.
Any questions, comments, or concerns? Please contact us at Harlequinn PM. We'll be happy to send you a photocopied, automated response. Thank you for choosing HarleyCo!
Yeah, that was just Supernova as far as I know. Though there have been instances where a member simply stays out of it, from either side. Thats why I discourage being in two factions being actively hostile to each other, though I allow it.
For a good example of how they can do multiple factions, several AW have been in Phantoms, including myself. Alpha still is. Phantoms and AW have been enemies of each other (bitter enemies in RP) nearly since the Phantoms were created. Yet the AW members in Phantoms do it in a good way. If something is shaping up between AW and Phantoms, they stay with whatever side they came into the server on. Or if in neither, they would usually switch to the outnumbered side, evening forces more. (Those even fights were really nice actually..)
It all depends on how the player acts with the fact of being in two factions.
Simple, as for example the lawful forces in RL. You're out of your jurisdiction. For you, there's no contraband unless if in cooperation with the faction that has jurisdiction. Common sense and logic. That is the rule.
' Wrote:...or,
We could just cede leadership and control of ALL Factions to Dab.
Mal, you are being warned!
If the stars should appear one night in a thousand years, how would men believe and adore and preserve for many generations the remembrance of the city of God? - from 'Nightfall' by I. Asimov The Outcasts consider Siniestre Nube a sacred place for several reasons. Early explorers discovered a jumphole within the depths of the cloud that leads to a strange world of ringed stars and strange craft. All ships in the burrial ground are placed facing that hole to honor the Alien Spirits. - An Outcast rumor
Quote:Characters from one account can join different factions freely, unless faction policy specifies another rules for this, but no more than 2 system-owning factions at one time.
This rule was about allowing characters from 1 account to join 2 system-owning factions (1 char belonging to Phantom, 4 to AW for example). Are you saying that we need more than two? I personally think that it might cause chaotic faction memberships... but you decide.
Smuggled goods are goods that the Navy NPC faction scans for: drugs, alien artifacts, pilots.
Everyone please remmember, if we have a good straight forward set of rules, there will be less OOC in game. No more room for debate about what is appropriate. Getting this straight will increase fun time and decrease whining time.
I.Community members and their characters. Managing members in multiple factions.
For the purpose of clarity: a 'member' is the individual associated with one or more forum IDs on the Discovery Forums. Examples: Koolmo is a member, but Macintosh is just a character. Yngen is a member, at one time he used the Forum ID OrrinDymas, but both IDs are the same member, [KNF]Nebotuda or [JOS]Tex are merely characters housed within Yngen's server account(s)
Pertinent arguments:
Onca
hmm I guess that's in place to minimise conflicts of interest between your multiple chars. It's probably one of the "lesser known" rules.
A conflict of interest could occur if one member has characters in factions that are hostile or at war with each other. If a member is forced to choose between one side or the other in a battle, other members may take personal offence and create strife and conflict in the community which disrupts fun game play for all.
Ultra
In my opinion I think we should all just stick with one faction. We all heard those rumors about people in different factions and when their leaders ask for some help they switch over to their character on hostile terms with their leaders faction and blow em up.
Rumors turn into forum flames, yes. However part of the fun of role playing is having the ability to step in and out of a role. Try on a different pair of shoes so to speak. I've dedicated myself to one faction before and found it rewarding enough, but I fully understand some peoples desire to try different things. What we must watch out for are members who are creating characters in multiple factions just to be 'where the action is' and who only log onto a particular character to join a fight. Usually when the fight is over, said member will switch to another character again and neglect the non-combat portions of a faction's role play.
Dboy
That was just Supernova.... I have not heard anyone else do it.
Yes, Supernova is the Discovery whipping boy. This doesn't mean someone else will not do the same thing. How do we decide who can or cannot be in multiple factions?
Koolmo
So, I'm in both the SF and the SCRA. Thats 2 system owning factions, so, at this point, I couldn't join RM, because they're also system owning.
How does owning a system or not effect the likelyhood one would find themselves in a conflict of interest situation? Systems are no longer won or lost in wars, their ownership is decided here on the forums with payment to the admins.
Nightfall
However, I know some of the people who are caught in more than 2 system-owning factions and they can differentiate very well between those characters (i.e. they don't mix them) while I know even more people that have chars in only two factions and do have a problem differentiating those.
Yes, quite a few of us are in violation of this rule. The ability of a member to 'differentiate' between characters, or keep their goals and interests seperate and play one character in a given session is an item open for debate and not easy to judge.
dboy
"Characters from one account can join different factions freely, unless faction policy specifies another rules for this, but no more than 2 system-owning factions at one time."
Ya, if they don't mix the characters together. I think it would be ok. It would suck to have to chose between factions. We have friends in all sorts of faction, all with different RP. It would suck having to lose all that.
I agree, many colorful and valid characters exist with members who are in many different factions. It would be a tragedy to delete them.
Dab
several AW have been in Phantoms, including myself. Alpha still is. Phantoms and AW have been enemies of each other (bitter enemies in RP) nearly since the Phantoms were created. Yet the AW members in Phantoms do it in a good way. If something is shaping up between AW and Phantoms, they stay with whatever side they came into the server on. Or if in neither, they would usually switch to the outnumbered side, evening forces more. (Those even fights were really nice actually..)
Except that we have a somewhat defunct restraining order between AW and Phantoms that Wolfpack ordered do we not? I know the leaders of these two factions disagree with each other often. But does the problem go deeper as well to some of the members that are part of both (I'm only guessing)? Phantoms and AW could be our biggest example of the problems associated in conflict of interest.
Igiss
[quote]This rule was about allowing characters from 1 account to join 2 system-owning factions (1 char belonging to Phantom, 4 to AW for example). Are you saying that we need more than two? I personally think that it might cause chaotic faction memberships... but you decide.
Igiss, we must be clear on what you mean by 'account,' 'member,' and 'character' There are community members here who have 2 or 3 accounts each, with a total of 15 or more characters. The question we must answer is: How many factions, system owning or otherwise, is one MEMBER allowed to participate in? It is plainly obvious that one character cannot be in more than one faction at a time as there would be ID/affiliation/faction tag issues. Requiring an account to be all one faction does nothing, all a person needs to do to switch accounts is open up FLAM and switch it, 30 seconds tops. The one thing that remains constant is the person behind the characters and accounts-the member.
II. System ownership priviledges versus NPC faction alignment limitations and mitigating war-time exceptions.
Pertinent arguments:
Nightfall
Using your example: SA can police Virginia. If there's a war, their area of influence expands to neighboring systems (jumpholes/gates connection: Texas, California), as they are a House Navy, their area of influence is somewhat wider (whole Liberty) but they don't have any say in Magellan however as it's not Liberty.
To paraphrase, in order for [SA] to have any juristiction outside of Virginia, they must declare war on...who? anyone? And when not at war, [SA] cannot demand cargo outside Virginia? (marches off to war because otherwise being lawful is boring)
Dab
I believe Igiss said some time ago in a thread I've forgotten, that if its justifiable by your RP, you may police a system. By justifiable, would mean KNF could police the Kusari systems, NT, Honshu, Kyushu, Shikoku. SA could police all of Liberty, except NY and Alaska. AW could police Omicron Theta, and we could probably justify our control over a 10k circle of a Freeport in neutral systems.. Bs| can control Minor, their Order.
Okay, that sounds like more fun than Nightfalls idea. But where does one draw the line? Judging range and distance to see if anyone is out of line is a bit subjective at times... And if a faction chooses a particular ID and affiliation that allows them to police a vanilla system, what is the point in owning a system in the first place?
Firebird
Solution: Add list of standard contraband that can be asked for anywhere. The faction specific contraband (if any) that a faction chooses to make contraband in addition to that list can only be requested within the region that the rule applies (sphere of influence).
A list of generic contraband that any lawful character can demand anywhere in Sirius...and then an augmented list of contraband that a faction may demand in its own officially owned system (like the nomad cargo ban in Cambridge, or the no trading rule in Omicron Minor.) That is concrete rule making and I like it.
Igiss
Smuggled goods are goods that the Navy NPC faction scans for: drugs, alien artifacts, pilots.
Simple enough, but refer up to Firebirds differentiation between contraband in a faction's sphere of influence, and contraband in a faction's home system-they could be two different things entirely. If I make faction X, and buy system Y, I could make a ridiculous list of rules about how if one flys clockwise around the sun they have to venerate my statue or they will be shot down. But if I'm in a system that my affiliation/ID holds influence in, I can only do the same things my NPC counterparts do.
Nighfall
Simple, as for example the lawful forces in RL. You're out of your jurisdiction. For you, there's no contraband unless if in cooperation with the faction that has jurisdiction. Common sense and logic. That is the rule.
There is a Junker base in New London, who has juristiction there? Or the Xeno base in Colorado? Or the Unioners? Juristiction according to the NPCs is rarely contained between jump gates. Juristictions overlap in many areas. More detail please
III. A faction's obligations to its ID and affiliation.
For clarification: the ID is a piece of equipment replacing the tractor beam allowing a character to perform a specific set of actions on the server. A character's affiliation is a reflection of his/her NPC reputation and shown by a game-assigned tag preceding the character's name. A faction tag, unlike the affiliation, is an alpha numeric combination that precedes or follows a character's name that is assigned by a player faction leader for all members of that faction.
pertinant arguments:
Onca
this could equally apply to the rep/status between players factions, as outlined by their posts in the status thread. Rather than the NPC factions represented by whatever ID they carry. So it may be ok.
but which is it? How do I reconcile the difference between what my NPC affiliated info card says and what my player faction leader says? This rule cannot apply both ways as it will conflict. It must be decided if and by how much a player faction must follow the behaviors of the NPC faction with whom they are affiliated.
Nightfall
What aspects of a faction's status and reputation are we obliged to follow? All. That's why the Faction Status Post exists in the first place, to fine tune the player factions statuses with each other, for example, two Zoner factions can be at war with each other for some reason while for example, a Corsair faction, no matter what they say (even mercs), cannot be allied or friendly to SA (not even neutral for that matter).
Your example utterly confuses me, why is it ok for 2 Zoner factions to be at war, but unacceptible for a Liberty Navy faction to be friendly with Corsairs? The Zoner example is a deviation from both the info card for the faction and the faction ID. The Lib Navy and the Corsairs don't even interact with each other anywhere (that I can think of.) We must be confusing NPC faction affiliation and Player faction status again and it only throws into relief a flaw in our rules. If a player faction can make friends with or war on whomever he/she chooses, why have an NPC affiliated ID in the first place? Why not make all IDs generic: Lawful police, lawful military, unlawful military, mercenary, pirate, bounty hunter etc. and do away with all the NPC faction IDs so we don't confuse the issue anymore?
Fwolf
I dont want to mess with others RP, I just follow my faction infocard, except for my AW chars who follow the clan policies.
I hear you man, but wouldn't it be easier if the ID you have pasted to your hull agreed with what your faction is telling you to do?
Dab
F_Wolf is right about alot of things here. Its always gotten on my nerves how SA and KNF are always friendly to each other, when they should almost be at each other's throats. That like if there was a faction allied to Phantoms and AW was friendly with them.
Not to mention the SF and KNF neglect their war. KNF and SF do not fight.. SF just sits and shoots NPCs in Tau-31. Both factions have shot at each other only once or twice to my knowledge.
Rheinland really shouldn't be friendly to SF even if the IMG wasn't shot by them. Bretonia is allied to Liberty, and Rheinland is just about at war with them.
such clarity and logic you have when speaking of other factions, yet AW refuses to act as Zoners would. If AW is allowed to ally with Lane hackers, then KNF is allowed to ignore SF by the same principal.
Harlequinn
And we can be allied with whomever we want, lad. If I can spin a cunning tale, I'll spin it, and if that means I can become allied with the Phantoms, for instance, I'd do it. Whenever you become the Ambassador of the Kusari Naval Forces or of the Sirius Federation, you can lament the situation. Until that time, however, please kindly do not criticize my RP, my faction's (Nadir's faction, actually) RP, the SF's RP, etc. You'll find it is all well written, well thought-out, and entirely organic. Nothing I do, RP-wise, is explicitly against the RP Herr Igiss set up for us. It's just altering it as we see fit.... I understand that the RP Herr Igiss writes in is superb, but I also expect the same basic abilities when it comes to diplomacy.
And finally we have the Organic argument. Thank you Harley.
Let me quote Robert Frost when asked why he chooses poetry over prose:
"Prose is boring, its like playing tennis without a net." In otherwords, where is the challenge in a game that allows me to do anything I want? Do not be afraid of order and structure, we are humans and we always adapt to any situation. There is plenty of role play to be had even with the obstacles the NPC infocards give us. You can be organic in your playing and still be within the rules.
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