Turning the Geb Carrier into a Heavy Battleship

[Tenacity]

However, with the Thebes coming in 4.86, that would make 3 battleships within RP.

Thebes is a one of a kind ship, designed as a headquarters ship - it will be the only one of it's kind, to my knowledge, not something produced for front line use.

Within PVP, the only other heavy battleships the Order will be facing is the Liberty Carrier - however, I've heard many people tell tales of how the Osiris can easily beat the average Liberty Carrier.

The marduk - the nomad battleship - is classified as a heavy battleship as well, and if anything it's the primary battleship we'd be fighting in the omicrons. It certainly isnt fun for our side when the keepers bring out Nox and Mammetum or Harbinger, and all we've got are osirises to contend with it =P

There are billions of those things already on the server. Upgrading them means billions of heavy BSs.

The 'geb swarm' isnt really an issue anymore, there are still a lot of them but not nearly as many as we had 6 months ago, the order has done a good job of cutting their numbers down.

Plus, most of those would be forced into buying a battleship license in order to keep using the ship, and for the price I think many would simply trade it in for something else.

I voted no. Everyone wanted the "light carrier" It is not a battle cruiser per say in 4.84.and everyone was like"i am so going to get one" that is including you Teanacity. Now it is here,and everyone wants it changed/modified. Live with it. At least it has a Thruster. Try the LABC. No thruster. I say if Order wants another ship? give them a light cruiser,not a bigger Battle ship. What i would truly like to see in the Order is a Light fighter.

We already have a light cruiser, or have you missed the resheph entirely?

The geb is and always has been a work in progress. At first, it was stuck with a crappy cruiser shield, and I argued with the dev team for months that it needed better defense. Even after it got the bs shield and increased armor, it's still having problems, and the only fix now is to change it's class altogether, since it has become quite apparently that cruiser weapons will never be balanced to work properly on a ship of the geb's size.

As for a light fighter, that is being worked on already, and has nothing to do with this thread. Now then, any 'real' reasons you voted no, or was it just out of spite?

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[teschy]

How about downgrading it to a more non-godlike cruiser ? I mean, right now, it's pretty much a light battleship, with thruster. It has a ridiculous amount of turrets, it can outclass BHG BCs easily, and it has tons of armor. Compare that to the LABC, and you'll see what I mean.

[Tenacity]

How about downgrading it to a more non-godlike cruiser ? I mean, right now, it's pretty much a light battleship, with thruster. It has a ridiculous amount of turrets, it can outclass BHG BCs easily, and it has tons of armor. Compare that to the LABC, and you'll see what I mean.

If we downgrade it, it becomes either a normal battlecruiser, or a heavy cruiser. Both cases require a new, smaller model, and there is no sensible way that a smaller model can serve as a carrier. The Geb exists as a carrier, that fact cannot change - the order uses these ships specifically as field bases for the launch and retrieval of fighters. We cant just suddenly claim that all carriers are now non-carriers for the sake of balance - it would effect the RP of too many players.
Think about it - carriers are the flagships of fleets, even moreso than battleships. The liberty carrier is a sight to behold, truly - I've only stumbled upon them in space twice, and whenever you see the ship you have to take a moment to stop and go "Wow". They're enormous, dominating a fleet, that's how they should be. Look at a modern day carrier battlegroup - the carrier at the center is twofold the size of any other ship around. Freelancer is loosely based on a mix of ww2 and modern fleet design. The zoner and IMG carriers are both classified as light battleships, true, but they're still relatively large and similarly impressive. It just doesnt make sense to have a carrier that's as small as the geb, or even smaller - as it would have to be if it were turned into a proper bc or heavy cruiser.

Whatever is done with it, it must remain a carrier, plain and simple. Smaller ships cannot do that, thus downgrading it to a bc or cruiser is not really an option. Similarly, upgrading it to a light battleship would be redundant, as we already have the osiris - the only shipclass we're lacking is a heavy battleship to counter the nomad battleship.

Our cruiser (the resheph) is relatively good. It does need turret firing arc modifications and a slight armor boost to put it on par with other light cruisers and the bhg destroyer, but it serves it's role well as-is. That makes downgrading the geb to give the order two cruisers redundant as well.

We need to stop comparing order ships to BHG ships - the BHG war is dying, there havent been events for months, and to my knowledge it will be cut completely in 4.86. Our focus is the nomads, wilde, isejin, and phantoms, our ships need to be capable of dealing with those threats most of all. Half the reason the order carrier was added as a bc in the first place was to match up our fleet capability with that of the guild core. That is no longer a factor.



Ultimately, I'm of the opinion that the only way we can properly balance the Geb, without removing it's status as a carrier-class ship and stomping on the RP of anyone that currently flies it, is to increase it's size - and with the order already in possession of a light battleship, the only other larger-class ship available is a heavy battleship. If it were converted to that class, it finally gains the ability to defend itself well enough in battle to capably serve as a leadership craft.

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[Tenacity]

As per suggestion by Rodent, due to the overwhelming fear of potential abuse by lolwuts, would it change any of the 'no' votes if this thing were made restricted by being available through SRP only, with approval of order high command?

It seems many of the negative responses I've had, though most have been through pm's or skype, are due to the fact that some of the 'lolwuts' running around with gebs now would suddenly find themselves in incredibly powerful heavy battleships, license or no license, and would abuse that even more than they do with the current ship.

If that's the main reason for the "no's", then restricting this ship is the simplest way to get around them. Personally, I'd love nothing more than for it to be restricted, but requests for such in the past have been met negatively by the developers and admins (though, to be honest, most of those requests were the 'ability' to restrict it, given to the official faction, rather than making this one ship itself SRP-only - so this might hold a little more weight with them).

The Geb was always meant to be a rare ship, it failed at that being available on the public market, and most attempts at getting it properly balanced have been met with scrutiny simply because of that fact. If restricting the ship is the only way to get a proper carrier, I'm willing to do that.

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[n00bl3t]

-All players who have had their Geb for a minimum of 6 months receive a free battleship license once the change goes through. Players who have owned theirs for less time do not receive a battleship license, and must pay for one in order to continue using the ship.

What?

SRP system is fail. Making it SRP-only would only make me change my hypothetical yes vote for a no one.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Birdtalon]

Voted yes. But. I am totally against the "getting a free battleship" idea.

As much as i like the idea, that would be totally unfair.
I dont understand why me and other owners have had to trawl my way through trading to get my battleship (it was hell) and people who have had gebs for X time get a free 400m worth of BS.

I propose to keep the Geb model in tye game but to just remove it from dealers in exchange for the new Heavy Battleship.

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[Tenacity]

Voted yes. But. I am totally against the "getting a free battleship" idea.

As much as i like the idea, that would be totally unfair.
I dont understand why me and other owners have had to trawl my way through trading to get my battleship (it was hell) and people who have had gebs for X time get a free 400m worth of BS.

I propose to keep the Geb model in tye game but to just remove it from dealers in exchange for the new Heavy Battleship.

Ok, so we make all geb players pay for a battleship license once the ship is changed, forcing a 250m credit sink before they can take the ship into the air. Fair?

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[Tommeh]

It's good idea, to replace geb with something, I am not really sure is heavy battleship good idea, we do need something like that I guess, I do afraid of abuse, if such ship does get through and if I see that ship in numbers as gebs are now, it would be big mistake.
But geb does need change for sure, he is not balanced with anything atm. He can pwn every BC, with tiny support from recon cruiser it can take some light BS, if used properly, I would say it's a bit strong.
So, I voted undecided, geb needs change, but I am not sure in which way, as I stated on skype.

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[Birdtalon]

Ok, so we make all geb players pay for a battleship license once the ship is changed, forcing a 250m credit sink before they can take the ship into the air. Fair?

No, let them keep their Gebs, and keep the Geb as a ship in game.

Just don't allow it to be bought anymore

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[Rodent]

No, let them keep their Gebs, and keep the Geb as a ship in game.

Just don't allow it to be bought anymore

I support this.