]bd[ lore revision (!)

[West]

Why do you think I created this thread? Because I want people's suggestion/opinions/whatever in that matter, among others. Geez.

And I think that you should be basing on .86 lore (since we already know that it's close) mainly on , afa outlawed(just like you guys), samura not in main power, hogosha not supported by samura and do not pirate in house space(id change yahho) and Kishiro inpower with more democratic regime. (IE you are not "other pirates in red ships" you just gathering resources for your operations)

It's up to you what you want, and you should have atleast some view on this matter. With more democratic regime, there won't be need to cooperate with dragons if they can deal normaly with govermnet don't you think so?
From my POV you should stick to "do not trust/kill/rob gaijin", and restore militaristic goverment.

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[Dane Summers]

The idea of Blood Dragons representing a more Pre-Meiji era\Sengoku era Japan model would be something I would suggest as well.

It's always felt as if Kusari represents a post-meiji\WW2 era model, with big business (read "Merchant Caste") representing power, with the government extensions (read "Military") being influenced by that power.

Which, in turn, follows the course of all the Houses in Freelancer, as in, they are All Corrupt.

While the new Kishiro Regime may be better or worse then the current Samura Regime, the Blood Dragons should still continue to oppose it.

At the same time, the FA, while becoming genuine outlaws, will probably become even more vicious in protecting there borders, and making strikes on the current Kishiro Regime - which in turn, should lead to increased Blood Dragon presence to savagely crush the "true" terrorists. At the same time, sabotaging the attempts of Samura\Kogen from getting back whatever power they've lost.

In fact, if the Rising Sons become more concerned with figting Gaul Incursions, i might make a Blood Dragon indie faction with the sole idea of protecting the home systems from FA\Hogosha radicals.

*shrug* maybe.

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[sadtranslation]

What is Kusari in a nutshell? It's a traditionalist corporate state with a strong vertical of power which actually renders it corrupt in the same moment. Once you take away the name of it, it can be separated into number of institutes, formal and informal, effective and not so much effective.

Guess what, the revolution took place and the Council of Rising Sons with a Hideoyshi descendant as an absolute leader had established themselves as the ruling body; so, like every regime does, they would start from protecting themselves from the same events of the past taking place again.

I see two main principles here:

Absolute power based on traditions;
Open market with an effective anti-monopoly law.

Now to the brief explanations:

Nationalization of the natural resources would be the first thing to do; for the states like current Kusari the ownership of corporations over the resources and territory is typical and should be prevented - and it's going to be the first step followed by the most harsh anti-monopoly law ever. That's important, that's what the Rising Sons would need to ensure that the economical elite would be never able to cope with the power of Shogun.

After the kieretsu are dissolved into numerous companies, the renewed economical regulations would basically open the market and create the conditions for a competition. Following this pretty much libertonian approach, Kusari would only win from the increased opportunities for attracting foreign investments.

Formalization of the informal institutes such as traditions would be the most interesting thing the Rising Sons can do. Once the institute becomes formal, it can be controlled by the state via the legal framework. Therefore this certain approach along with the effective court system, not affected by the vertical of power anymore, gonna be the most effective tool against the syndicates and semi-legal entities.

But not like Kusari's turning into a perfect Mary Sue democracy; on the contrary the adaptive civil and economical laws that please the middle-class and the angry burgers would prevent those most dangerous groups from acting against the state. What kind of state would it be?

I guess that the constitutional monarchy with the limited authority of the Parliament of a kind would be the most effective; and with the opportunity to define the economical policy of Kusari and alter the civil code along with no ability to actually affect the decisions of Shogun and the Council, the Kusari would ensure the stability for a considerable period of time.

Kusari would be very permitting for the average citizen. He would get the independent court system and adequate open market with the Parliament being capable to adapt to the economical conditions and alter the taxes for the importers and stimulate the investments into local business. On the other hand, the constitution itself and the administrative barriers would be the impenetrable barriers for altering the role of the Shogun and the Council and their power would remain absolute.

In the end, I'm not going to ignore the militarist nature of Rising Sons, but for a reason I see the renewed Naval Forces more similar to the modern Japan Self-Defense Forces in terms of the operations, in terms of civil control and in terms of public image. Those Naval Forces would not be just a military body, but an effective social elevator and an alternative to the bureaucratic career or business effort.

I guess that this concept is flawed in its best, but in such a speculative discourse this is at least an attempt to construct a model of state upon the balanced political, economical and social institutes without losing connection to the past history of Kusari.

It's an ideal model and the actual implementation of it would reveal lack of correspondence between the conditions and the solutions and the obstacles on the way of its implementation are unknown, but it's good what it's made for - to see the potential of the certain framework and the particular ideology. And which is more important, with this ideal state in mind one can have a much easier time defining the shape of the actual Blood Dragon roleplay right here and right now.

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[Markus_Janus]

Ok well first let me state that the Roppongi station info card is screwed up.
According to vanilla lore Roppongi was not built in New Tokyo orbit until after the end of the 80 year war.
The Roppongi info card we have now is not Vanilla and contradicts with Vanilla lore, welcome to discovery.

So that would seem to back up some of West's statements about being anti gaijin.
As it was the Samura backed government that allowed it to happen not the old Shogunate.
Also have a look at the type of government from the Blood Dragon times, it does correspond to a certain time in Japanese history.
As such I believe that the Blood Dragons would be at least as bad as the Samura backed government, even more so, just not as bad as the Farmers Alliance.

We must take into account though that what happened to form the Dragons happened nearly 500 years ago.
The current Dragons great great great great great grandfathers were not born yet as such when someone has been living on a rock for all this time they morph quite a lot from their original makeup.
This does allow a certain amount of freedom in choosing a new way of looking at things.
This explains why the Dragons work with the GC despite such heavy differences between them and could help to explain why they could be more open to foreigners now if you like.

Now about Dragons allying with others outside of Kusari.
The thing to remember here is that the Dragons want to restore power in Kusari, they are very protective of it's people as their future supporters/ vassels.
There is no reason why they would ever join forces with a foreign power that wished to harm the people.
After all they have a problem with GC hurting their public image with the people due to their heavy use of pirating.
So while I see Dragons using some other groups for support, they would never accept help from anyone that is a threat to the people of Kusari.

The new government that will be out soon is also something that the Blood Dragons would not be happy with.
We can clearly see that the Kishiro backed government is interested in silencing Dragon interests as it directly threatens their power in Kusari.
It is another corrupt corporate run government that has no interest in returning to the way things were prior to the fated Sakura festival.

About the issue of Dragons and women, there is no lore to support that Samura started the sexist culture in Kusari, this being the case it must be accepted that it was around before the change in government, hence part of the Dragon movement.
Now having said this, the dragons a long time ago would of had to face the reality that without allowing their women to fight, they would probably have died out as a movement.
I still see them preferring to have women at home breeding little Dragons but don't think thy could enforce that.
They allow women to fight sometimes and do anything to stop them running away to join the GC.

So long story short.

• Dragons were as bad as the current regime if not more so with foreigners.
  

• Dragons were every bit against equal rights as the current regime, I believe if they could go back they would.
  

• Blood Dragons are nostalgics wanting to back to a time no one can remember and fight for an idea that no recent ancestors were alive for.
  
• Dragons would not accept the new government and would now find Kishiro to be the new Samura, not that they would go any easier on Samura.
  

I actually love the dragons myself as they are the most backwards group I can think of in Sirius.

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Samura Omotai Zaibatsu.

[Hone]

I think the BD should become lawful allies of the new Kishiro .86 government.

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User was banned for: Griefing others
Time left: (Permanent)

[Dane Summers]

I dunno - i like the idea of a more feudal model.

While there is an emperor, install a Shogun in direct control of all Naval and Police forces - each system has its own leader, a Daimyo, which controls a section of military and police, responsible for dealing with all issues in that system.

As for the Blood Dragons within this model, they would act as a highly elite royal guard for the shogun, as well as special military unit - kind of like the Kempeitai, but...different.

*shrug* its a thought. Hell, would be interesting to bring back the Clan structure, as it existed Pre-Meiji.

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[Dane Summers]

• Dragons were as bad as the current regime if not more so with foreigners.
  

Citation Needed.

As well, on the sexism issue -
From a perspective of Japanese Feudal Culture, pre-meiji, Women were not in any restricted from becoming warriors.

The major restriction came from the class structure. A woman born to a farming family is going to die a farmer. This became far more liberal in the years leading up to the Meiji Revolution, where the only thing that separated a Farmer and a Ronin was whether the Farmer had a weapon or not.

During the Sengoku era, women, daughters and wives of Samurai (although i use the term meaning "warrior" - the term Samurai is a class term, not an occupation) at times took up arms to defend there homes if needed. It wasnt common, but it also wasnt forbidden, or discouraged.

Hell, one of the more famous ancient figures of Japan was a woman

As well as the list of emperors, of which more then a few were women.

inb4"Kusari is not Japan"

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[Markus_Janus]

Citation Needed.

As well, on the sexism issue -
From a perspective of Japanese Feudal Culture, pre-meiji, Women were not in any restricted from becoming warriors.

The major restriction came from the class structure. A woman born to a farming family is going to die a farmer. This became far more liberal in the years leading up to the Meiji Revolution, where the only thing that separated a Farmer and a Ronin was whether the Farmer had a weapon or not.

During the Sengoku era, women, daughters and wives of Samurai (although i use the term meaning "warrior" - the term Samurai is a class term, not an occupation) at times took up arms to defend there homes if needed. It wasnt common, but it also wasnt forbidden, or discouraged.

Hell, one of the more famous ancient figures of Japan was a woman

As well as the list of emperors, of which more then a few were women.

inb4"Kusari is not Japan"

I did provide citation in the way of Roppongi station how it was put into the game as well as no citation available to state it was a new culture brought about by the corporate influenced government.
Original Roppongi infocard.

Name: Roppongi Station
Description: In the early years of the Kusari Empire, foreign immigration was strictly controlled and permanent foreign settlements on New Tokyo were strictly forbidden. While the Kusari Shogunate was unwilling to bend these rules, it still accommodated foreign business interests by constructing Roppongi Station in orbit. Since that time, Roppongi has largely become home to elite expatriates from New York and New London who have long-term business to conduct in the system. The station is also a popular destination for New Tokyo youths wishing to sample its entertainment concourses. Interspace Commerce (IC) maintains an office on board to oversee its interests in the system.

One rumor aboard Roppongi.

Roppongi was established in New Tokyo following the resolution of the 80 - Years War.
Previously we had no physical presence in Kusari, unless one considers all of the Trade Lanes that IC financed here, which Kusari incorrectly claimed were their own during the trade dispute in the sixth century.

The sexism issue, well you said it yourself, there is a large difference between someone with a sword and a Samurai.
Any man woman or child can pick up a weapon and as soon as they swing it, they become a warrior for as long as they shall live or win the fight.
This does not have much to do with the samurai caste though, which is more to the point of this discussion than whether someone can shoot you or not.

Again the title of Emperor or Empress does not have any links to the Samurai caste and although I agree that as long as a woman, of the imperial line, is strong enough she will be Empress, it is not linked to women being a part of the Samurai caste.

Is it impossible for women to be Samurai, no I don't think so, hell this is just a space game and if that is what you want, I am fine with it.
But again unless citation is provided that the sexism issue was brought about by Samura backed government, we must follow logic that it was their beforehand hence followed by the Blood Dragons.

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Samura Omotai Zaibatsu.

[Panzer]

D'aww, gimme a break, Fran!

First off - I still think you can be emporer.

Second - what makes you think you can beat Samusari at gaijining people?

Third - Don't let go of your ambitions.

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[Aingar]

As far as I'm concerned, Dragons are the "best guys around" in kusari, I mean, from gameplay standpoint, we won't increase kusari playerbase with the anti-gaijin kusari vs rest of the sirius, no matter the occupation.

Hogosha? Pirates foreigners.
AFA? Pirates foreigners.
KNF/KSP? Ignores the above.
GC/BD? Pirates because they can.

Now tell me one reason for foreigners to enter kusari, right now it's samura/kishiro who exports and imports majority of commodities in kusari.

Also, I can't really tell what is the stance of BD towards Bretonia/BAF in general, leave them be, "keel the gaijin", or keep them safe, so they kick KNF backs?

For the record, I never played with kusari but as a bretonian player i had more than one encounter with various kusari factions.

Oh, and during SP, I couldn't find a slightest trace of anti-gaijin feeling going toward Trent, everyone was polite, nice, standard "honourable samurai" stuff.

Feel free to comment.

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