Cerberus - the best choice for combat against a ship of similar size.
High damage, best efficiency, good range, not so easy to hit with (inaccurate)
spot on - very good. damage to energy ratio is good
Mortars - for long range bombardment or high damage in short time.
Very high damage, bad efficiency, very good range, needs aiming (accurate but slow)
not bad, although i would have preferred them to use very little energy but have a very high refire rate - so they can be used tactically - in many cases ... unless you are support only....when the time comes to use them, you usually have too little energy ( in situations where the battleship is the primary target )
Razors - for sniping smaller ships (gbs/bombers/fighters)
High damage, not so good efficiency, medium-low range, very high speed.
the projectile speed and range is too low - waaay too low to justify mounting them. - also the damage is too low.
Missiles - long range bombardment, defense against smaller caps. Good for de-shielding other caps.
Very high damage, bad efficiency, best range.
basicly good. - but like the mortars - kinda useless unless in a pure support role. - by the time to optimally use a missile, you are too low on energy - making sustained damage a better choice. - they are good vs. cruisers though. Another alternative may have been : low energy, but ammo instead.
Primaries - standard guns for for fights against similar caps, primaries do the job but guns mounted on heavy slots can change the outcome a lot.
spot on
Pulses - best as support for mortars/missiles in long range fights.
i don t like them - cannot comment on them
Secondaries - very good vs cruiser who come close and GBs, usable vs bombers
very good - reminds me on the 4.83 primaries
Normal Solaris - deadly to fighters (keep them out of their effective range), hurt bombers if they try to aim SN. Somewhat usable vs GBs.
use too much energy for too little effect. damage is too low, projectile speed is laughable. the range is OK now. - but there is little incentive for me to mount those over secondaries
Gatling Solaris - better dps and refire than normal solaris but inaccurate (create cone of fire). Good for "area coverage" support in combination with normal solaris.
i still love the concept, but i think that they should use exactly the same energy per second as solaris or maybe significantly less ( that might be an incentive ) i don t know about a damage increase, cause then they could be used vs. GBs or larger ships too well - where dispersion isn t the issue
Flaks - hurt fighters at close range, deflect novas/missiles.
For best effect the flak should explode to the side of the projectile so that it can throw it to wrong direction.
totally disappointing. - the purpose and the mechanics are OK.... but the fact that chainfiring even 2 flaks drain the core FASTER than chainfiring 6 primaries + 3 cerbs is rather bad. - the energyneed of flaks makes them rather bad.
suggestion:
razors should really go to lvl9 spots instead of lvl10 - a choice between : pulse, primary or razor is a better one. - razors are snipers at short range - but lack sustained fire.... they are also not even remotely as efficient as primaries.
HMs, mortars and missiles. should use little energy - but should be regulated via the refire. ( HM : refire 5 minutes // mortar : refire 2.5 minutes // missiles : refire 2 minutes OR ammo based and refire 30 seconds )
that way - they would become tactical weapons.
solaris might need a speedbuff to the 2400 they had
gattling solaris should use significantly less energy
flaks - 30% of the energy they currently use - that will still drain a 9m core.
pulse might get an even greater range - and less energy. - after all - shields are small compared to hulls on capships.
Well for razor it's easy, less energy used will make them worhy a little bit. However, razor on 10 itself contradicts the logic of class 8 dedicated to point defense and 10 dedicated to fighting big ships. That said, even if it used just some 500k energy, i still wouldn't mount it, heavy slots are too precious. As for pulses, nah, they won't be useful at any kind of dps as long as they stay in the same class as primaries. So dunno, really. Perhaps they should be turned into some kind of antishield primaries, which'd have less hull dps but more shield dps, to be used in combination with usual prims, like, 3 usual, 1 shield prim?
My experience: IMG Battlecruiser, 6 chainfired Solaris. No need to equip them at the moment. They cannot drain a bomber shield of a heavy bomber. Not even at the point blank ranges they seem to work as in the last version. I unequipped them and exchanged for faction turrets which are at least able to do any damage when they hit (by chance).
I liked the system in the last version, where a bomber suffered from Solaris if he did not break off early enough with his snac run. Solaris Caps made bomber pilots fly carefully and trade off a higher miss probaility due to far range snaccing for reduced risk from Solarizing.
At the moment, I do not feel that a bomber needs to be afraid. Just move in, shoot, fly out. Solaris will not get you as it used to be.
Haven't enough experience with the other guns to comment.
I haven't flown all that much, but I feel perhaps the damage done by most weapons, except those designed to shoot smaller ships, is a bit high; Battleship vs Battleship fights are seemingly just as fast as before, if not faster. It would be ideal if you could broadside an enemy Battleship a couple times before you were out of b/b, making several passes, this would increase the skill and make fights at least as long as cruiser vs cruiser or other such fights.
I think a few ships could use a bit of hard-point tweaking, but other then that, everything seems to be ok except for one thing.
I say this as a bomber pilot, and a cap pilot:
The new Solaris guns do too little damage, and the Gatling Solaris's spread render them amazingly useless
The two problems, and only two, are the DPS of Solaris, as they no-longer have the punch to be able to knock out a bomber's shield quickly enough before they break off their run. this coupled with the ABHORRENT spread of the Gatling.
I want to say here and now, i LOVE the idea of Gatling Solaris. I WANT to use them on my battleships because the spreading of them is quite cool and offers area suppression fire of targets. As it is though, they are just too spread out to be useful, only 1 in every 20 shots hit (we measured this in braunschwieg) rendering them almost useless against snubs as they can simply ignore the fire. I would support the halving or even quartering of the dispersion radius.
Other then that, great job, I love what has been done!
Razors - Switch them to class 8 slots. I'm not going to waste a heavy slot on one.
Flaks - Could use a slight energy use reduction
Solaris - Fine
Gattling Solaris - More of a shock and awe weapon. Useless in practice, nice in theory.
Pulses - Not worth it while taking prim slots.
Missiles - I'd like to see these with a low refire and high splash damage. Huuuuge explosions on impact. These're thermonuclear warheads afterall. Maybe make them use ammo as well.
Secondaries - I still can't really get into using these. I think maybe a tiiiny damage or speed buff would do the trick.
Quote:Cerberus - the best choice for combat against a ship of similar size.
High damage, best efficiency, good range, not so easy to hit with (inaccurate)
GB Cerbs: Too slow, too inefficent, too situational. They are OK vs. other GBs but you gimp yourself vs. anything else by using them. The gimping is not worth what GB Cerbs do, especially since lighter GBs can keep some distance and dodge them relatively easily. Lighter GBs can't fuel them very well either with the light powerplants. I'd say either +150 range so they're more versatile vs. other caps (due to range) with a bit worse efficency so they turn into a more useful thing for medium + heavy GBs (as they're rarely mounted on light ones in the first place) or just make them keep dp/s and everything but turn them into 3.03s.
Cruiser Cerbs: Perfect as they are.
BS Cerbs: Perfect as they are.
Quote:Mortars - for long range bombardment or high damage in short time.
Very high damage, bad efficiency, very good range, needs aiming (accurate but slow)
Cruiser LM: Good as is 'cept the refire. Low on the drain, okay on the damage, requires you aim. Works fine but I'd give it 0.30 refire up from 0.25, it's easy to miss a maneuvering BS with it from even 2k or 1.5k and even easier to miss when used vs. smaller caps. Being able to spam it more would help it.
BS M: No reason not to use a HM instead. I do not like this weapon but I don't know what to do with it. Maybe give it a m/s boost, lower the range a good bit, add a bit worse efficency so it becomes a better choice vs. smaller caps, while HM stays burst-damage vs. big caps with better efficency. I don't think this would hurt since you sacrifice a heavy slot with one anyway.
BS Heavy M: Good as is. I like this thing, it does what it says on the tin. Huge boom in a short amount of time. The big gun.
Quote:Razors - for sniping smaller ships (gbs/bombers/fighters)
High damage, not so good efficiency, medium-low range, very high speed.
GB Razors: Fine as they are.
Cruiser Razors: They could use more damage at the same damage / energy efficiency they have now. 36.5k is too little damage output vs. anything but lighter Bombers (insta) or fighters (insta). They're not as good vs. Gbs or otherwise + not that easy to hit with 'em. Highly situational and too unreliable. + damage would give people more incentive to use 'em as it would mean if you hit, it hurts more, and you could insta some heavier bombers (but not the superheavy ones!) or get some little damage in extra vs. bigger caps. I wouldn't touch the speed however.
BS Razors: They're as useful as before in theory but there is not much incentive to mount them. They take the Heavy slots on a BS. This is not optimal as usually a HM or a Cerb is the more versatile and superior choice. I would suggest you make them use Battleship Primary slots like Pulses instead so the trade-off when mounting one isn't so big. Losing a Mussile / Cerb / HM for a Razor sucks. A lot.
Quote:Missiles - long range bombardment, defense against smaller caps. Good for de-shielding other caps.
Very high damage, bad efficiency, best range.
GB Missiles: Fine as they are.
Cruiser Missiles: Fine as they are but I'd give them a bigger blast radius. They fire very slow, they drain a big lot, and the damage is fine but you'll never hit more than one thing with them. If this is intentional, leave them as they are.
BS Missiles: See above. Also, it's silly that the Basic BS Missile does 10k less damage than the Hessian Cruiser one. Just give all a global +20k damage boost or something so they're actually a bit extra more better than Cruiser ones. That they also act as CDs is a major plus.
Quote:Primaries - standard guns for for fights against similar caps, primaries do the job but guns mounted on heavy slots can change the outcome a lot.
GB Primaries: Right now they're alright. Vs. fighters not that good but just buffing them would make them kill Bombers even harder which would be bad, right?
Cruiser Primaries: Perfectly fine. Didn't miss the point with those.
BS Primaries: Perfectly fine as well, see above.
Quote:Pulses - best as support for mortars/missiles in long range fights.
GB Pulses: Fine as they are even if what you said as missile or mortar support doesn't apply here.
Cruiser Pulses: Fine as they are.
BS Pulses: Fine as they are.
Quote: Secondaries - very good vs cruiser who come close and GBs, usable vs bombers
Do what it says on the tin. The damage vs. Cruisers is a little low however. I wouldn't buff that regardless seeing as that would translate into buffing them vs. GBs and Bombers as well, areas in which they perform fine in. I would make them a bit more energy efficient instead across the board, as they do drain a little too much for what they do.
Quote: Normal Solaris - deadly to fighters (keep them out of their effective range), hurt bombers if they try to aim SN. Somewhat usable vs GBs.
GB Solaris: Junk. +100 m/s more than GB Prims and less dp/s than secondaries for 5.00 refire is junk. No reason to mount those whatsoever. I would add another +100 m/s, give them 8.00 refire, do as much dp/s as basics but at a worse efficency so you can shoot super-fast but will suck vs. other GBs or whatnot. Maybe that would make them more useful, but I can't see them replacing GB Prims. Ever. On second thought, just kill them from the mod.
Cruiser Solaris: I'd give them a 200 m/s boost and +50 damage at reasonably worse efficiency. As is they're not ideal for most Cruisers and it's usually only the light and small ones that can utilize them to full potential, where it's the bigger Cruisers which would benefit the most of 'em, but they're not accurate enough at longer ranges to safeguard heavier Cruisers. Smaller Bombers can shoot heavier Cruisers with SNs / Novas without the heavier Cruisers deterring Bombers much from it and without hurting them that much either really. A big and slow heavy cruiser is an easy target. Little reason to get close to it. Even with Turret-Steering now, you'll be hard-pressed to miss a Praefect, a Vidar, a LABC, a KUBC, a BHGBC, an IMGBC, a Storta, an Obstinate, and even the relatively small Thanatos. Because they're all either big or slow, or both.
BS Solaris: Just add +50 or +75 damage at same efficiency to compensate that we mount less of them now. They work fine else.
Quote: Gatling Solaris - better dps and refire than normal solaris but inaccurate (create cone of fire). Good for "area coverage" support in combination with normal solaris.
Don't work on their own. Work okay with Solaris but they're still horrible. Don't like the spread much even though I know it is intentional. If we can lower the spread to be 1/2 or 2/5 as it is now, they'd be fine. (Take into account that if you were to give regular solaris +50 / +75 damage these would get the same dp/s boost of Solaris as well.) Right now, they're not really that useful. What hurts them most isn't only the spread against snubs however, but it's that unlike regular Solaris, these things absolutely suck vs. GBs and they can even miss Cruisers just with that spread. Solaris themselves will hit. These won't. That sucks.
Quote: Flaks - hurt fighters at close range, deflect novas/missiles.
For best effect the flak should explode to the side of the projectile so that it can throw it to wrong direction.
They work but I'd add a global +2.5k damage but keep power-drains the same. These things do drain a lot of power and are horribly inaccurate and sometimes very hard to aim. Should be more bang once they hit. The deflecting works fine.
Quote:QUOTE
Normal Solaris - deadly to fighters (keep them out of their effective range), hurt bombers if they try to aim SN. Somewhat usable vs GBs.
GB Solaris: Junk. +100 m/s more than GB Prims and less dp/s than secondaries for 5.00 refire is junk. No reason to mount those whatsoever. I would add another +100 m/s, give them 8.00 refire, do as much dp/s as basics but at a worse efficency so you can shoot super-fast but will suck vs. other GBs or whatnot. Maybe that would make them more useful, but I can't see them replacing GB Prims. Ever. On second thought, just kill them from the mod.
Cruiser Solaris: I'd give them a 200 m/s boost and +50 damage at reasonably worse efficiency. As is they're not ideal for most Cruisers and it's usually only the light and small ones that can utilize them to full potential, where it's the bigger Cruisers which would benefit the most of 'em, but they're not accurate enough at longer ranges to safeguard heavier Cruisers. Smaller Bombers can shoot heavier Cruisers with SNs / Novas without the heavier Cruisers deterring Bombers much from it and without hurting them that much either really. A big and slow heavy cruiser is an easy target. Little reason to get close to it. Even with Turret-Steering now, you'll be hard-pressed to miss a Praefect, a Vidar, a LABC, a KUBC, a BHGBC, an IMGBC, a Storta, an Obstinate, and even the relatively small Thanatos. Because they're all either big or slow, or both.
BS Solaris: Just add +50 or +75 damage at same efficiency to compensate that we mount less of them now. They work fine else.
QUOTE
Gatling Solaris - better dps and refire than normal solaris but inaccurate (create cone of fire). Good for "area coverage" support in combination with normal solaris.
Don't work on their own. Work okay with Solaris but they're still horrible. Don't like the spread much even though I know it is intentional. If we can lower the spread to be 1/2 or 2/5 as it is now, they'd be fine. (Take into account that if you were to give regular solaris +50 / +75 damage these would get the same dp/s boost of Solaris as well.) Right now, they're not really that useful. What hurts them most isn't only the spread against snubs however, but it's that unlike regular Solaris, these things absolutely suck vs. GBs and they can even miss Cruisers just with that spread. Solaris themselves will hit. These won't. That sucks.
I would just like to take the time to second the above quotes. These are indeed the issues to be dealt with and include valid solutions, ESPECIALLY the part about offsetting gunboat solaris damage to energy efficiency ratio. As you very well notice, no gunboat ever mounts solies.
' Wrote:Mortars - for long range bombardment or high damage in short time.
Very high damage, bad efficiency, very good range, needs aiming (accurate but slow)
They could really benefit from better efficiency, for not only the reasons Jinx listed, but also because Cerberus and missiles kind of make them ineffective. At close ranges, Cerberus turrets would be much better to use, and at long ranges, the mortars aren't fast enough to reliably hit, while missiles have tracking and can hit at long ranges.
They're just not reliable at long range or as efficient for close range, basically. What I think needs to be done is perhaps upping their fire rate a small bit and giving them better energy efficiency.
Quote:Pulses - best as support for mortars/missiles in long range fights. Secondaries - very good vs cruiser who come close and GBs, usable vs bombers
Pulses are, frankly, useless. They're not that energy efficient for the damage they deal, and generally primaries are better equipped than pulses due to being better all around.
Either give pulses more shield damage or better efficiency.
Quote: Normal Solaris - deadly to fighters (keep them out of their effective range), hurt bombers if they try to aim SN. Somewhat usable vs GBs.
They're basically pea shooters. They don't do enough damage to be really effective, and secondaries are honestly a lot better for pretty much everything at the moment.
I'd give them more damage and slightly better energy efficiency.
Quote: Gatling Solaris - better dps and refire than normal solaris but inaccurate (create cone of fire). Good for "area coverage" support in combination with normal solaris.
As Lob said, these guns are completely useless. Their dispersion is far too high to be of any practical use, even though the idea behind them is neat.
The current dispersion would be fine if the projectiles would explode when they're near a target, like actual WWII flak, but I doubt that'll happen.
So really, tune down the dispersion by at least half.
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