' Wrote:It's cause right now most of the balance is kinda made zone wise. Kusari being Kusari (relatively fast and small), Bretonia being Bretonia (relatively well armored, but slower) and etc, etc.
' Wrote:Posting in yet another Corsair shipline thread.
To retort to the Sabre comment Rodnas made:
a) I have been flying the sabre for 4 years now
b) You clearly don't know anything about the Sabre
c) The Sabre was not nerfed to nothingness
d) The Sabre is not more agile than most VHF's
e) Your Sabre arguments contradict each other
I am afraid your irony sensors weren't working- i was referring to some outcast players who claimed that a uber nerfage destroyed the factions activity. Which is not understandable if you get a look at the pure stats in any way.
Quote:I'm amused about you didn't mention the possibility of a torp/mr+ CD on the gladiator. True that it has 4 guns, but meh, you've 2 class 10 and 2 class 9. Tiz + Colada + MR is welcome, for naming some possible setup.
Well, it was not mentioned as in setup, but it was mentioned-this setup is the "classic", still there is no reason for the ship being that big and that slow!
Quote:Waran a faster challenger? Lol. It's freighter sized. And it's speed is pretty much the same.
Falcata's handling is a pain, and that nose is a snac magnet.
Roc is damned easy to hit in group fights.
Those are all bombers- shouldn't they suck in groupfights vs fighters? Also, the stats were extracted with Flstat, so agility is pure turning speed in that comparison, i favour it that way as the "feeling" gts no place in rating, yes a waran is huge..and it looks slow..so maybe your brain automatically makes it slower than it actually is(it is still slow, mind you but not that slow)
Quote:Eagle small? Lol. Try a group fight on it.
Sabre fast than most of VHF? Lol. Equal maybe.
Well, the question remains why is the Eagle so ofthen used then- you sure don't want to claim it is a bad ship, right? As the Sabre being fast-i rechecked, it is above average only 17 out of 37 ships in the class are faster than it, means 20 are slower.
For the ships in general, i do not cry for the nerfhammer or claim that all of my examples are OP ships, they just give off a very homogeneous picture if combined with the usable equipment. Simply put:nerf none, but buff the Sairline!
Speaking of guns, i can't understand why anyone likes the Salamancas. They are clamed that they are higly damaging and therefore drain more energy. The truth is they only deal medium damage while draining your core! Most people agree they are crap for the smaller ships due to that immense drain, so let#s compare em with codies: If you put slas into the E/s list you get it on the third position, straight behind Archangels and Twighlights. who Have 700 or 500 dps more.
If you look at codes with comparable damage you will find Dulzians, Solarisses,Onyx and Jade - all of them not superfavoured( Dulzians and Solarisses see some use).
If you favour refire rate you only have the Phoenix to compare which has 100 dps less, but also uses 200 E/s less, too!
Summed up: Salas are less efficient as the so called inefficient lvl 10s and worse than their level 9 counterparts and unusable for lighter craft(almost).
=> Yes you can play with them and yes you can shoot someone down with them, but you sure have a lot harder time than a fellow who doesn#t use salamancas. I mean the whole logic of the energy guzzling fails me- if an ADVANTAGE of the Titanwas its big core, why do you take it AWAY whith these energy guzzlers?
' Wrote:Edit: Why do you think Salas are worse than their class 9 counterparts? Just curious.
' Wrote:you can get the casual RP "justifications" and "but they are good balanced"
And here we go.
Dubstep as you well know having 100/150 more speed and ~0.6/0.8 more DPE clearly outclasses ~ 200 DPS more in 90% of the PvP situations- considering faster guns.
If you consider the same 4.0 600 speed guns take Sunrails- same speed, same refire rate but well- Salas have 40 less DPS and terrible DPE- 3.3 while Sunrails have 4.3- the difference is huge and you know very well it as experienced player why you post crap?
Why you try to twist the facts as shown in his Excel table?
Rodnas I agree to the most part of your post however you have major problem because FL stat does not show all of the ship characteristics making your work quite wrong. Balance team clearly does not want member base to be capable to properly compare the ships in the mod.
I would forward you there to get more detail data and proper explanation: http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...=126721&hl=
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
I keep saying to everyone that they should stop reading FLStat or Datastorm and then going "There is no way ship A can turn faster than ship B, I just read their turn stats in FLStat/Datastorm", but no one ever listens. Why don't they? Well dunno, its beyond me.
It's not as simple as just comparing two numbers out of FLStat/Datastorm/Whatever.
Edit @ Govedo: Why are you mad bro? Was I talking to you? No. I was asking him why he thought Salamancas are bad. You aren't his lawyer, and you certainly aren't one to judge if my posts are crap.
They have nice damage. Yeah, they do 10 less damage than Sunrails and use a bit more energy. Tough luck, Sunrails are particles with 600ms speed, slower than any other particle. You forgot to mention that didn't you? Every particle weapon is stronger than a neutron weapon. I know it might come off as a shock to you, but some people like 600ms weapons. Oh, they're 4.0 refire? Even better. Comparing them to Phoenixes? Phoenixes are class 10's bro, Sals are class 9. Stop whining about Salamancas, there is nothing wrong with them.
Well, to look at guns you have to look at 2 things, personal taste and numbers. I consider refire rate as 100% personal taste, weapon speed 50% - so i will focus on DPS, energy usage and efficiency
Let's start with numbers:
With 2120 DPS the Corsair guns are solid within the average, numbers range from 1824 to 2433.
Now look at the energy per second value: The Salas(2120 DPS, 640 E/s) are third in line overall, behind the Black Widow(2340 DPS, 700 E/s) and the Kalashnikov( 2,273 DPS, 667 E/s). So they do significantly less damage than those.
Lets see the less energy using guns which get pointed at sairs: Krakens and Sickles(2,224 DPS, 544 E/s), quite good already!
Now, how about those Firekisses?(2100 DPS, 424 E/s) that is over 200 units LESS for similar damage! And the wraith has the big, almost titan core to boot!
Similar with Sunrails: 2160 DPS, 500 E/s
Does the Titan core really justify those stats? Maybe we should take a look at efficiency then as some people like to hand out the most damage for their energy! (all rounded to the first dec)
Leaders in the field are Firekisses(5,0 D/E), Sunrails(4,3 D/E), Flashies(4,3 D/E) - also quite good at this are Splitters(4,2 D/E), Krakens/Sickles(4,1 D/E).
Guess where the Salamancas are: last in line with 3,3 D/E
Summed up, they do medium damage, drain your core and are inefficient.
Now if you count in that "normally ™" weapon speed gets valued as a plus while balancing you start to wonder why the Krakens are still 700, The Kalashnikov at 715.
If you want a "good" 4.00 refire and 600k/s gun, why don't you take a Sunrail (the only comparable gun that gets stuck in corsairs noses) ...you could also cry tears while looking over to the Order( 2240 DPS, 532 E/s , 4,2 D/E ) or you could compare to all guns who have a faster projectile speed, more DPS and less E/s!
So much for number crunching, now to my personal opinion!
Personally, i love aiming with fast projectile guns as you have to move the mouse less and you can take more care of your maneuvers. Also the shot hits its mark easier as the target has less time to evade.
I think 4.0 refire is quite nice, 2.00 almost as nice, everything bigger has too little damage per shot for me in general. So i would favour a fast, medium to low gun with high damage and i don't care then about the energy...where can i get Krakens and Kalashnikovs for my Titan?
To me, the main problem is: medium-crappy ship, Crappy guns makes a crappy result. End of the story.
Aaaand as i am a slow typer and some answers flashed in: Yes i do know that FL stat does not show everything- and i pointed it out, too. What FL stat gives you is a nice hint and base for comparison, which i used
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