There are some loopholes with the CD'ing it seems, although to me this isn't one of them. I'm not entirely sure how the "self defense" line on the Zoner ID is defined, but I would have taken a shot or two at him after he insisted on his demand if I was you.
I'm more curious about for instance dead ships CD'ing ships from the group that killed it in another system; underlevels pinning people with CD's until the big baddies arrive, pirate Battleship captains that hire a random Freelancer to be his CD'er and similar things. To me those examples are very unsportsmanlike, but I don't think it's against rules (except for perhaps some of the poorly defined rules about "harming gameplay" etc.).
Error in premise here. Your faction ROLEPLAY suggests the Corsairs shouldn't be hitting you. That means you need to seek a ROLEPLAY solution to that happening, rather then invoking server rules. As far as server rules go, there is no reason why a Corsair should not be able to pirate a Zoner. Having been on the Sair side, I heared the "brought food to Crete" excuse many times. But honestly, unless you're carrying food/fertilizers to Crete, or artifacts away from Crete, you're a fair target for Sairs, at least in my book.
Contact the Corsair Elders, and let them deal with it. CD spamming isn't against the rules per se. In the setting you were presented with it was used to enforce the piracy demand. You would have been perfectly fine to engage the CDer if that was your wish.
Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.
Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.
I agree with aternus, Corsairs have a right to pirate zoners but pirating them in the omicrons is a bad idea, especialy in theta. Most corsairs I know of will ot pirate a zoner but the indie ones are the problem.
(04-29-2013, 10:06 PM)AeternusDoleo Wrote: Error in premise here. Your faction ROLEPLAY suggests the Corsairs shouldn't be hitting you. That means you need to seek a ROLEPLAY solution to that happening, rather then invoking server rules. As far as server rules go, there is no reason why a Corsair should not be able to pirate a Zoner. Having been on the Sair side, I heared the "brought food to Crete" excuse many times. But honestly, unless you're carrying food/fertilizers to Crete, or artifacts away from Crete, you're a fair target for Sairs, at least in my book.
Contact the Corsair Elders, and let them deal with it. CD spamming isn't against the rules per se. In the setting you were presented with it was used to enforce the piracy demand. You would have been perfectly fine to engage the CDer if that was your wish.
Sweet thats exactly what I wanted to hear! Next time this guy gets pew'd into dust, look out!
(04-30-2013, 07:19 AM)Dirk Danger Wrote: Sweet thats exactly what I wanted to hear! Next time this guy gets pew'd into dust, look out!
Next time you get sanctioned then. (my 2 cents & it was not me btw don't have any sair cruiser to begin with)
1. You did fire on that guy what you stated. as zoner you may not fire on ANYONE only in self defense.
2. Spamming cd its not against the rules. some even use it to try and force RP. (pirates and such)
3. with the cloaks beeing disabled with cd's you kinda provoke more cd spams, but don't forget they get dry after some time.
4. as AD told try to solve it inRP with the corsair elders. I doubt it will help you, but you can always try. It would be a suggestion to do some escorts with your transports. As well your neutrality won't give you some Pirate free ticket to trade.
User was banned for: Permbanned
Time left: (Permanent)
(04-30-2013, 08:01 AM)Duvelske Wrote: Next time you get sanctioned then. (my 2 cents & it was not me btw don't have any sair cruiser to begin with)
1. You did fire on that guy what you stated. as zoner you may not fire on ANYONE only in self defense.
2. Spamming cd its not against the rules. some even use it to try and force RP. (pirates and such)
3. with the cloaks beeing disabled with cd's you kinda provoke more cd spams, but don't forget they get dry after some time.
4. as AD told try to solve it inRP with the corsair elders. I doubt it will help you, but you can always try. It would be a suggestion to do some escorts with your transports. As well your neutrality won't give you some Pirate free ticket to trade.
Duvelske, the admins do have a brain. If a demand is made or repeated cruise disrupting is being done, and there has been ample warning for the offender to stop it, then there's no admin who would sanction a person for fighting back with actual weapons. People who try to use the letter of the server rules to get around the spirit of them are not appreciated in admin central - they usually end up with a warning on their own part.
The "Getting hit by a CD doesn't count as an engagement start" rule is meant to allow people to stop a cruising ship, or prevent a ship from starting to cruise so you can make a demand. It's meant to start the roleplay that will either lead to an engagement or not. Repeatedly CDing someone to slow them down after a demand is made, or without making a demand at all, and then hiding behind the "it isn't an engagement" rule, is not covered by that intent.
Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.
Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.
(04-30-2013, 07:19 AM)Dirk Danger Wrote: Sweet thats exactly what I wanted to hear! Next time this guy gets pew'd into dust, look out!
Next time you get sanctioned then. (my 2 cents & it was not me btw don't have any sair cruiser to begin with)
1. You did fire on that guy what you stated. as zoner you may not fire on ANYONE only in self defense.
2. Spamming cd its not against the rules. some even use it to try and force RP. (pirates and such)
3. with the cloaks beeing disabled with cd's you kinda provoke more cd spams, but don't forget they get dry after some time.
4. as AD told try to solve it inRP with the corsair elders. I doubt it will help you, but you can always try. It would be a suggestion to do some escorts with your transports. As well your neutrality won't give you some Pirate free ticket to trade.
I think you need to read the details of the engagement before you comment mate. I specifically said twice that I shot at him and deliberately missed. Anyways case closed as far as I'm concerned. Thank you very much AD for clearing this matter up for me and any others who find themselves in the same situation.
I know that everyone has a brain, but its more the point zoners may not engage.. only with self defense. I have seen so many people abusing this rule.
also the reason what Dirk stated its that next time he just opens fire. With that he is wrong. also inRP he could solve it with that person. As you stated AD it has to be to start an RP. How many people you cd start to run instantly? Funny part is pirates need to make a demand before they may shoot. How many here can type very fast? in order not to let the transport escape? think about it.
Also the spamming cd.. well basicly you are also tampering with people who try to use cloak. SO it is also an engagement notice in a way. Think about it. you use your precious cloak which consumes a lot of fuel on your (in this case) zoner ship. a guy does cd you so you can just (as Dirk stated) instant fire back?
in short:
Its a violation of abuse of game mechanics to troll someone. Its not a reason to let violate Dirk his id with it by just blasting a cd spamming corsair who did not made any demand. Asking for money because he is poor i get every day when i play. (is it Green message piracy then?) Also if Dirk would meet that guy again and decides to shoot him he violates his id. Better to report the cd spammer so admins could do something against it. SO that at least he knows he is doing something which is not allowed and MAYBE.. yes MAYBE even learns of it. As it seems ingame mistakes to point out dont work.. Reports do sadly.
User was banned for: Permbanned
Time left: (Permanent)
Simple put at the moment when he made demand and you refused to comply you are in PvP even if the shields were not taken down, next time shoot him.
Example to clarify :
LF makes demand on BS and shoots it but cannot take down its shield to half-it does not mean that BS cannot shoot back meanwhile,you can even use the same thing if it is not LF aggressor but 1 bomber. Same story if fighter attacks transp with 100k shield etc.
This examples shows that self defense actually happens much earlier in-game timing then written in the rules.
The Zoner ID is made in the spirit of the rules not by its letter none would sanction you if you RP and do stuff properly.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
Ill I wanted to do here was get a better definition of what constituted and act of piracy or an attack, so that I could defend the person who I was escorting form the exact person he told me was giving him trouble. I'm not really sure I understand your exact logic here. Yes, I understand what a Zoner is and how they are to act. I've pretty much played exclusively Zoner for a year now. But on the other hand, why are Zoners even allowed guns in the first place if not for to defend themselves or their allies from an 'attack'. I'm not looking for a pass to go open up on anyone I want because they CD'd somebody In my faction I was escorting. Their just needs to be a legitimate reason for it. And your right, I should look for every non violent reason not to pew as a Zoner. But how am I to believe that a L80 FREIGHTER is broke? I mean, I've 'donated' millions of credits, because the RP was good. This was just some guy being a douche and the next time he does it I'm going to do exactly the same thing as the first time. Except after I try all the RP I can with him, and after he spams me and the ship I'm escorting for ten minutes, and after I warn him 4-5 times that he will get blown up if the CD'ing doesn't stop, I'm going to treat him like a pirate who is trying to rob my faction mate that I'm escorting. And if that is bad for RP then maybe you should start a petition to make it a offense for any Zoner ship to be armed with a weapon at all, because we obviously don't need them for anything.
Anyways, I'm not posting here anymore lest this turn into some kind of heated debate thread. I got what I wanted, clarification on a rule from an admin. Thanks again AD