Frigates

[Di'taraAlpha]

Couldn't agree more. Although I'd like to see more Salvager-type Salvage frigates in Disco (I'd be nice for other factions, ALG maybe to have an equivalent), an entirely new subclass is not going to do disco any favours, expecially with a pirate ID fitted.

Piracy is in a weird spot though. A good bomber will shred most small convoys (as it should), but once you start getting bigger a gunboat isn't ever going to cut it (I'm sure we've all seen battletransports eviscerating gunboats before). Since individuals who fly pirate ID often fly solo when pirating, the current system rewards teamwork between traders. Throwing in a pirate IDable heavy salvager (that's effectively what's being suggested right)? Would create an entirely new piracy dynamic, one where the pirate would be able to take on bigger prey but not nessarily more individuals. Of course, this is all situational and none of this would probably apply in practice.

In theory, pirates would love it. But they might also hate it. I can't see a situation where it could be ballanced fairly between the needs of the traders and the needs of the pirates. Hrrm...

However I'd generally conclude that giving indie pirates bigger ships is not the answer. Cap proliferation is already becoming nonesensical (ask any Zoner who doesn't buy a Nephillim as their first ship), so we don't want to perpetuate this problem by bringing out a whole new class of more easily available sub-caps.

However frigates (throughout history, as pre-mentioned) have always been fast, light warships, not cargo ships. A fast interceptor gunboat with a cruiser shield but light armour and a bigger hull and less steering? Now that would be food for thought.

Don't let me discorage you, all ideas deserve to be developed .

[Tonto1911]

Honestly, a frigate class wouldn't be half bad, but not as a transport. Too heavily armed and armored to move cargo. There needs to be something to bridge the gap between gunboats and cruisers. Yes, I know they have heavy and light GBs, same with Cruisers but it doesn't feel the same. A frigate, or hell even a corvette for that matter, could easily fill the gap between the two.

[Draconyx]

I personally think that making a frigate class like the junker salvage frigate is now would make the most sense. Gb guns transport shields and maybe a similar cargohold - the salvage frigate as it is now cant beat a cruiser and takes a lot of effort to scare off a gb - lone bombers can kill it if skillfully flown. It's a strong transport but weak as a capship

[Karst]

The thing is though, who would get a ship like that? Transports with gunboat turrets are simply too powerful to be openly available.
The current house battletransports are about the upper limit of how powerful ships with transport-sized cargoholds should be. Freelancers and Pirates get battletransports too.....they're called liners.

There is supposed to be a tradeoff between cargo capacity and firepower. You can't have both.

If there are more Salvager-type frigates added, they should be HIGHLY restricted, ideally by ID like the Zoner whale.

Although I'd like to see more Salvager-type Salvage frigates in Disco (I'd be nice for other factions, ALG maybe to have an equivalent),

DO WANT. Yes, I'm biased, sue me.

A fast interceptor gunboat with a cruiser shield but light armour and a bigger hull and less steering? Now that would be food for thought.

That sounds ridiculously overpowered to me.

Edit: What I'd LOVE to see is the Democritus getting enough power to fire all gunboat class turrets, including razors and missiles, and the Geisha getting a gunboat turret (the one on the front deck) as well as more power.

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[SnakeLancerHaven]

Honestly, a frigate class wouldn't be half bad, but not as a transport. Too heavily armed and armored to move cargo. There needs to be something to bridge the gap between gunboats and cruisers. Yes, I know they have heavy and light GBs, same with Cruisers but it doesn't feel the same. A frigate, or hell even a corvette for that matter, could easily fill the gap between the two.

Exactly.

And yeah A fast interceptor gunboat is not a Frigate lol, that'd be realy overpowered dude. What I mean with frigate is a mix between Cruiser (not even Cruiser, just Destroyer) and Gunboat. Slower than a Gunboat but faster than a Cruiser, heavily armed. I actually agree to the "Poor mans warship", I know Pirates and Freelancers have already too much freedoms but think of it that way. It would realy shush the mouth of those who want a Cruiser as a Pirate, even if you look back at history, Pirates had at least Frigate - like ships, not something bigger. I thought about Corvette first but that'd be like a heavy gunboat, thats why I suggested Frigates because Frigates would realy close the hole between Gunboats and Destroyers

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[SMGSterlin]

Mh. Transports with cruiser guns? 'm thinking... no. We already have the Destroyer class as light cruisers (mostly, LSC should be a destroyer and that Bret thing should be a cruiser, seems their names got a bit mixed up in vanilla). The only frigate we have ingame is a more heavily armed transport. Which would suggests that the battletransies (Shire/Akegata/Bison/Uruz) are essentially frigates.

I wasn't thinking cruiser guns on a transport, that would be a bit too powerful. A transport that can fire a light mortar? That's just lulz.


However, I was thinking giving some transports, like the Bison or Akegata, fewer turrets, but make them into gunboat turrets. Or, alternatively, making some new versions of transport turrets could potentially serve the purpose as well.

I'm not saying give the whole transport class a buff, just give a few transports some sort of upgrade. To balance it out, you could raise the cost of these ships as well.

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[Bootsiuv]

Hmmm, gunboat turrets on my bison?

Sounds pretty strong to be honest. I mean, have you actually tried to pirate a Shire in a snub? It isn't all that easy to be honest, especially if the transport captain is experienced.

I like the frigate as a warship between gb and cruiser i.e. destroyers, but not for cargo hauling. Transports don't need to be warships, and it would make pirating them nye impossibru. It's already damn hard to pirate a battletransport if the pilot flying it knows what he's doing.

This is coming from someone who regularly tried to pirate Convoy in a Roc, so I know about pirating battletransports.

They're strong enough.

[SnakeLancerHaven]

@Bootsiuv exactly, my idea, as described at beginning, isn't about Transporters, its about "real" Frigates, some sort of ships which keeps the balance between Gunboat and Destroyers. Something in the middle. Look I saw Rogue / Molly Frigate proposal, and it doesn't look that bad actually. We have the Salvager as the Rogue / Molly now, I say, you see how many Battlecruisers there are? Like only 4 - 5 max. How about 2 Civilian / Unlawfull and 3 for Lawfull Faction, something between. Imagine a frigate for a Freelancer or Pirate, he'd be like ":3 I haz my own warship :3 I'm awesome" EVEN THOUGH he'd get owned by Cruisers (I m talking about unexperienced, newbies which use Frigates without any experience), he'd accept the fact that ok Cruisers might be good, but however I'm gonna destroy him with a couple of friends in a Frigate. You give Players a new way of Strategie, Tactics, maybe instead of spamming Cruisers and Battleships into the battle, one will try it with Frigates and Gunboats. If that doesn't work, he'll change his strategie and tries out a new tactic. Alot of options which fills the hole between Gunboats and Destroyers.

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R.I.P Tabris...
Youtube - Twitch - My old Account

[Anaximander]

Well Sally is one of the nice things Junkers have (maybe they get some stuff fixed in .87, dunno), and it would be sort of a shame to water that down by giving everybody else the same toy. Mind you, Pirate and Freelancer ID players can use Sally at 75%.

I think we have enough ship classes, and the balancing act seems tough enough as it is already; I think more classes will just break balance even more while not really adding much in terms of gameplay.

Transports got TS/TZ in 4.86, that's a HUGE buff (yes I know the general idea is to introduce a new class, but if it has more than 3000 cargo and better guns than regular transports, it will inevitably become the transport of choice for a lot of traders).

[SnakeLancerHaven]

Nah Anaximander, I have to disagree, there is a big hole between Gunboats and Destroyers, don't count this out yet. Frigates would seriously give you a decent feeling of another gameplay. Well at least, they could be some sort of an Exploring vessel which is heavily armed. I actually think Frigates would also make a nice Exploring vessel! Instead of spamming caps or Gunboats, you just send small amount of Frigates, which are able to defend theirself and do lot of damage to the enemy, if its good pilotted of course. Also in War, with a good tactic they could be used as scouts, many things the Frigates could be used. A Gunboat has simply not enough firepower to take on bigger ships (even though there are players who take out Cruisers in a gunboat). Its the name "Gunboat", if you ask me of smaller crafts which could take on, on a Cruiser there comes 2 Ships in mind, "Bombers" and "Frigates" but not "Gunboats". As for the Destroyer, a Destroyer is simply, I'd say too much firepower for a Pirate or Freelancer. But I think the age has come that they are AT LEAST able to take over or buy (even build)Frigates somehow, anything bigger would require a special RP of course, cause its not easy to take over a Cruiser without damaging itself that much. However, I also think a Cap Vessel would have Frigates as Escorts too (talking about factions who can use Cruiser and above) since they could be realy usefull. It would be all balanced might. I'm sure of it.

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R.I.P Tabris...
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