End of the Liberty-Rheinland conflict

[Mímir]

Well the server isn't (just) cops vs robbers 24/7.

Naval ID's allow for fleet PVP, but if I am just shooting stinking unorganized pirates, I might as well do it on a FL ID and get paid in the process.

Problems with Corsairs/Hessians as enemies:

Rp-wise: Corsairs and Hessians have in countless discussions been determined to not at all be on par with the Houses.

Oorp-wise: No way that there are enough somewhat organized Hessian and Corsair players to form proper fleets on a regular basis; not to mention that the Omegas are real annoying to fly through in a cap - especially if your cap has horns. I don't know where you think all those players are magically going to appear from, at the same time and location? The LNS'ers won't be selling their dreads to get Legates and Jorms, I am sure of it.

It seems so odd to kill off one of the most active venues in the mod in an attempt to displace action elsewhere, when at the same time the server is dying a slow death. Rheinland vs Liberty is one of the only conflicts that can still draw a full crowd, why jeopardize that now at this point in time, when the results will be the most catastrophic if you are wrong?

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[Leppy]

Well the server isn't (just) cops vs robbers 24/7.

Naval ID's allow for fleet PVP, but if I am just shooting stinking unorganized pirates, I might as well do it on a FL ID and get paid in the process.

Problems with Corsairs/Hessians as enemies:

Rp-wise: Corsairs and Hessians have in countless discussions been determined to not at all be on par with the Houses.

Oorp-wise: No way that there are enough somewhat organized Hessian and Corsair players to form proper fleets on a regular basis; not to mention that the Omegas are real annoying to fly through in a cap - especially if your cap has horns. I don't know where you think all those players are magically going to appear from, at the same time and location? The LNS'ers won't be selling their dreads to get Legates and Jorms, I am sure of it.

It seems so odd to kill off one of the most active venues in the mod in an attempt to displace action elsewhere, when at the same time the server is dying a slow death. Rheinland vs Liberty is one of the only conflicts that can still draw a full crowd, why jeopardize that now at this point in time, when the results will be the most catastrophic if you are wrong?

I have an idea. How about all of those RNC turtle people like make a ship on each side of the conflict and then idk like have fights between each other? Half of the fun on this RP server is to explore the different sides and styles of RP. This activity would then draw others to each faction to join the PvP fun. Sometimes you have to make your own activity which will then draw others to join.

IMHO, deciding that a single faction is "yours" (ie: deciding that you personally are a Rheinland military character rather than that character simply being an equal among all of your others) is doing it wrong.

[Mímir]

So you want the RNC to divide in half, making Corsair/Hessian ships as well? How is that not going to make the chances for good fleet combat less likely, as there would be half the players each side (assuming half the RNC guys would be interested in making Corsair/Hessian ships, which I find unlikely)? And what are the LNS'ers to do? Shoot Gallia, just like Bretonians? Not very long ago it was difficult to find a GRN fleet online, and now it only happens on occasion. For years people have tried all sorts of incentives for players to play GRN/Gallia with very little success. Are we going to default to cops/navy vs robbers?

Personally I don't even have a Rheinland ship at the moment. A single SFC Guardian is what I have involved in the Rheinland-Liberty conflict. That being said, I agree - it's good to explore both sides of any conflict (I used to participate on the Rheinland side) and be able to also log the opposing side if numbers are tipped, but some players focus on just one faction and I can see the merit in that as well. I don't think either is "right" or "wrong".

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[Pavel]

Mímir I assure you, blue messages from stinking unorganized pirates are no worse kind than blue messages from House navy. I realize total peace would be bad, and that's why I came up with uneasy truce scenario proposal, with inRP occasional pew still happening.

"Pirates" often aren't pirates but are mixed "pirate-revolutionary" groups; think about hessians as of FARC equivalent. Situation could be compared to FARC vs Bolivian goverment, or to Mexican Drug War. There is no doubt if those groups, or hessians in Disco, tried to attack goverment forces as equals, they would be decimated. Instead, guerilla tactics is the way to go - use of local terrain (thick nebulas reducing sensor efficiency, asteroid fields and network of jumpholes known to unlawfuls) and support from population is why hessians can fight regular forces of Rheinland goverment. Mexican drug cartels also pose serious threat to Mexican goverment, or FARC to Bolivian one, and thanks to income from unlawful activities these groups can afford high-tech weapons and materials on black market; Mexican drug cartels sometimes wield home-made armored cars against regular army.


But, enough RL comparisons. What I'm trying to point out here, is, that that kind of activity isn't worse than Texas/Hamburg raids. There were massive battles in Rheinland each evening at the beginning of .86, and all of that lasted for quite some time, until hessians were killed by POB grind.


Storyline develops, and at least part of pew activity from Texas/Hamburg will be relocated to inner Rheinland for RNC pewers, and to Magellan/Bretonia for LNS side. Why do you think "pirate" players are less worthy opponents than house navy? What I see here (not directed at you personally! you're not the only person telling me things from that pov), is we may have problem with attitude from some of naval side guys in general.

[larzac]

Assuming that Pavel scenario is choosen, to still has some fight between LN/RM and too not involve too much RP like: You broke the truce bla bla, Devs could create an ID a little like bretonian privateers. LN and RM would recruit or send some of their members under false name to continu fighting. These ID would allow to atack military and able to pirate civilians. That's just an idea like that but i think it would be good with Pavel scenario.

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[Mímir]

Well I am not opposed to ending the conflict.

I am just not convinced that displacing it to conflicts between Hessian-Rheinland / Corsair-Rheinland / Liberty-Gallia will work at all.

If it does, I am of course all for it. I just think it's risky to experiment with these things now. Afterall, after 4 years the Rheinland-Liberty conflict is still going strong in-game.

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[Pavel]

@ larzac

Actually, there's no need for new IDs.

Intelligence IDs allow for constant pew with other intelligence agencies. That's realistic, even allies spy on each other, and sometimes there are casualties in silent war.


@ Mímir

Well, not as strong as it used to - sure there recently were some raids, but it's not happening on daily basis. I don't think it's that big source of activity as it was earlier.

[larzac]

@ larzac

Actually, there's no need for new IDs.

Intelligence IDs allow for constant pew with other intelligence agencies. That's realistic, even allies spy on each other, and sometimes there are casualties in silent war.

Yes i thought to this too, but intelligence ID doesnt allow the right to pirate others, and attack others without a good reason (and: You are LN i kill you isnt enough if there are no more open war). And i think that LSF and BDM faction havent the goal to become sort of privateers, that's why a new ID would be welcome. And it would give new opportinuty of RP even if it would be more a pew-pew ID like the pirate one

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[Alley]

Ok, thanks to everyone that participated. A lot of good points have been raised and we're going to take them into consideration in our decision regarding this. I'll leave Snak3's thread open for those that want to discuss battleground shifts or specific points regarding the consequences, I'd be especially interested in opinions on the sigmas stuff I posted in his thread.

Thanks again ! We have 26 pages to sum up now.

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Alley was right.