As the leader of Order| and member of the Order HC, I agree with 95% of the post of Tena except this part :
Quote:Now, one change suggested by some of the Keepers themselves was to refrain from having an actual 'home system', beyond omicron 100. Instead of having one system which all order players are based out of, we would establish hidden, dockable osiris-class ships throughout sirius, one in each house and several placed strategically throughout the edge worlds, from which the order would operate.
Quote:The only area that our capital ships would now be capable of operating from would be Omicron 100.
No, no and no. The Order need a system, a centralised point that allow us to coordinates every others bases we could have in Sirius. Thus, we need to be centralised in the Nomads worlds, closer as possible as the Nomads core systems. And our capitals ships must be allowed to travel in all Sirius, except the Houses systems of course, excepting urgence situations only. (Mainly Omicrons, Omegas, Sigmas, Taus etc...)
Omicron 100 will stay as our guard system and main productor of capitals and we need a system like Minor to be a "home" for the Order people.
Beside this point, I'm totally agree with what you proposed, but we already talked about it on the Order HC channel.
I'm going to add my 2 cents here, or rather my concerns regarding the first point: the Tech War (let's call it that, easier to type)
let's say the tech war ends in a grand showdown of fate. massive fight like suggested and once again the nomads sucker us stupid humans and set up us the bomb while we are busy shooting the snot out of each other.
Order loses almost all its caps. your choice, and a logical one. won't need em so much anymore if the Tech war ends. deciding that the BHG should ditch its caps following the nomad-suckerpunch goes a bit far.
secondly, the Core going back to bountyhunting in the edgeworlds? I thought people were yelling and screaming that hunting there had to stop? let alone in caps...
then, attacking Outcasts? why? with the Order gone, what stops the core from scooping up all the tech and researching where and whatever they want? apart from hordes of angry sushi-ike aliens, of course. bit unrealistic that the Order goes 'meh' now and leaves the Core alone while they run amok with nasty rayguns. but oh well.
but then, my main corncern.
If the Order goes all secret again, I think you lads will die of boredom. you will heavily rely on rp of your fellow 'enemy' players. as a house hunter, I can tell you, that sucks. you will just get the Keeper treatment: 'oh no order sighted kill kill kill'. I know what you are thinking. 'aha... but we won't BE sighted.' meaning long range text only rp. IF the other players decide not to just ignore you, like they usually do nomads when they can't see em. that too, gets boring as hell. talking to no one. IF you are even talking at all. secrecy, remember?
patrolling and flying around with nothing to do but 'recon' will become boring very soon I fear. you almost entirely rely on the Keepers, Wilde and the Kusarian Wilde (can't type the name, my fingers will end up in a knot) for your rp. they are rarely / not always online, let alone in numbers.
so what then? shoot nomad npcs? rp with nomad npcs?
In short my main concern is this: you want the Order to be secrative, undetected, unheard and unseen.
but what rp (and pvp, this IS an action game after all) is there when you are secret, undetected, unheard and unseen? non. that's the point when people don't you know are somewhere. and if they can't find you, they will just give up after 30 seconds, ignoring you alltogether.
I agree on pretty much of Tenacity first post, but I am afraid Dashiell is right.
This all sneaking around being secretive, only fly fighters etc sounds very cool, but with time it will get bored.
No one will know you passing through, or if someone detects you it will be like for Keepers "zomg hunt it down nau". So I am not sure about that part.
Although everyone hates BHG vs Order wars as it's attracting lolwuts it is one part of this mod for long time, lolwuts are ruin it, but I had lot's of fun in those wars.
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I agree on some sort of cap restriction, lolwuting gebs and ossies needs to be stoped somehow.
' Wrote:What follows are numerous suggestions which have been put forward by both myself and others within the order high command, which serve as the possible changes to correct the issues within our faction. While most of these will not go over well with the community, at least those who play within the order right now, the purpose of this thread is feedback and -constructive- criticism of the ideas. Flaming or worthless posting here will be removed, without warning.
Topic 1: The Order-BHG War
Most of us within the high command agree on one thing - the BHG war needs to end. The primary reason for this is to try and cut out at least a portion of the so called "lolwutters" within the order faction.
It is well realized at this point that the BHG war brings very little to us other than pure pvp. The bhg are a large, widespread group, with hundreds of nonfactioned players who strive for little more than to shoot whatever shows up as red on their screen. In turn, this attracts the same kind of players to The Order for one simple reason - it gives them a near constant, reliable target. You can log on almost any time of the day with an order character, and there will be bounty hunter players nearby to go pick a fight with.
Many of us, including myself, believe that the BHG war serves no real purpose. Sure, the BHG are trying to get technology - that gives them a purpose, but not us. Personally, I disagree with the BHG ever getting a capship fleet to begin with, as they were never depicted as the kind of faction which would go to war or require such ships during the singleplayer campaign. However, such cannot be changed now.
Simply put, if we end the order-bhg war, many players within the order will find that they either no longer have a reliable target, or simply do not have enough pvp action to sate their thirst, and will leave. At least, that's what we're hoping for. The order should be focused on dealing with wilde and nomads, no one else.
The idea to end this war is simple - the BHG and Order wind up in one massive battle with the majority of their fleets and forces all in one locale. During this battle, the nomads take advantage of the chaos and destroy both fleets in one blow. With severely reduced forces, the order is forced to turn from it's overt policy back to a covert one, focusing on stealth and intrigue rather than all out warfare. Similarly, with it's own forces depleted, the BHG core would pull back and cut off the order-bhg war, realizing that the technology they hoped to gain is no longer worth the cost. The Core would turn it's focus primarily onto the corsairs and outcasts, going back to traditional bounty hunting in the edgeworlds rather than warfare.
Let's see - first, take a deep breath. Take a couple of steps back. Okay, calm now. (Note that the following comments are being made by me as BHG|Core Guildmaster and player, and not as a forum moderator.)
I can appreciate that the Order has discussed issues internally and would like to see some things end. We of the BHG|Core have discussed things internally as well. How about this? We win, you lose, and now WE'RE the ones fighting on the front lines against the Nomads?
Of course, since any discussion of how your decision would affect us should necessarily - I don't know, maybe include us - at this particular point I'm going to take anything you say here with a very large grain of salt. This is not a flame - this is a case of you're telling us how and what to play. I do not approve or agree with that - or with your posting of this suggestion - without discussing it with us first. (You did note that I mentioned being a BHG|Core Guildmaster above, right? One of the Council of Guildmasters that MAKES policy for our faction? Haven't heard a word of this prior to seeing your post here today - even from our Order spais.)
For another - your scenario for a grand finale' battle - just doesn't fit with the way we've BEEN RP'ing with the Order|. Quite frankly, if there was a big battle between the Order| and the BHG|Core fleets and Nomads showed up - we're going to become temporary allies and combine forces to defeat the Jellies. We've done that in the past in Delta already - it's been established that while we're fighting to take control of Nomad tech, we're also not blinded by the reality that you're still humans and they're not. (I and many of our pilots have been on too many Nomad chases working WITH Order| and Zoner pilots to deal with the common enemy.)
Your issues with the BHG are duly noted. However - as you pointed out - the genie is out of the bottle and this is well PAST the basic, single-player campaign game in both time and space. Things evolve.
You mention that the Order doesn't have a purpose. I'm sorry - I thought the purpose of the Order was to contain and/or eliminate the threat of the Nomads to humanity. If working at cross purposes to the rest of humanity isn't working - or at least working against the BHG|Core isn't working - then how about working WITH us?
(11-21-2013, 12:53 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.
The bottom line that Order's primary enemies (Nomad conglomerate and your friendly neighbor local house subsidiaries) are all either invite-only or semi-invite factions, either way the numbers are quite limited. I'm afraid there is nothing to do about that, unless you got an idea. Cause I've been pondering about solutions for like... two years I think, and none of the ideas that I came up with were viable solutions for various reasons.
To Agmen of Eladesor:
Well, let's see it this way: both Core and Order can fight each other to kingdom come as far as I'm concerned (except the fact it attracts a certain type of people en masse), thing is the whole subject of and the premise of the entire conflict could lose the main structure support pillar - the nomads. And have it all come down back to what it was and to disband nomad player faction, cause the way I see the picture is that whatever is happening in Omicrons got stuck in a groundhog day, badly, people are bored to death with that endless PvPfest and myself I'm just preparing for the worst to come soon enough. Sucks, innit? Just a discussion, you know, so I guess we're here to discuss, right? Right... This whole mess needs a fix, solutions to move it away onto a better path rather than sit at mud pit and do nothing. I for one find zero enjoyment in what's going in that area, as a result growing inactive further day by day. Go ahead, write alliance, win the day, be a hero, heck I might even arrange a victory for that... but then what are you all going to do after? I think I know the answer: becoming obsolete.