Developers. Please!

[MarvinCZ]

They really NEED to be worse, that's the trade-off for being universally available. I really don't want to see those guns all around the place, even on ships with perfectly good faction guns at their disposal.

@McNeo:
While the vanilla civ guns were 750m/s, that's because 750 for a laser is normal and the Deb is just special... We now have a slower Deb too.

750m/s for a 2.0 gun seems very wrong, no matter what you did with the energy. 600-650 would work. Even the 4.0 shouldn't be 750m/s, if only because that would grant one instant advantage over most other guns - perfect match with the Debilitator. So, 600 or 700 would work.

[Guest]

Nobody says non-civilians should be allowed to use the guns, cops and military will still use their proper guns, same with the Bounty Hunters, ... when it's not permitted for them to use civilian tech.

[MarvinCZ]

The thing is, Civilian tech IS available to everyone. That's really the point, they are unaffiliated and wide-spread, they don't really care who buys the guns. For example the Debilitators are a mainstay in most factions.

[Guest]

The thing is, Civilian tech IS available to everyone. That's really the point, they are unaffiliated and wide-spread, they don't really care who buys the guns. For example the Debilitators are a mainstay in most factions.

That's why every faction should get custom shieldbusters.

But anyway, just make them have a downside then, but not something that would be a huge disadvantage in battle. Escorts have enough trouble keeping 2 bombers away from a Transport as it is.

[Tommeh]

Wait, folks, what are we talking about here? There is NONE Civilian 2.00 or 4.00 guns. Nobody asks to make civilian ones something like codes or Nomad blasters.

Everyone are complaining about something that doesn't exist. Spazzy only asked to give at least some 2.00 or 4.00, and you all whine how they shouldn't be stronger then house ones, who did asked that they should be anyway? gosh.
It's a shame to me, that Freelancer needs to spent cash on codes to get solid stuff to be able to defend himself.

Just give some 2.00 or 4.00 guns, and if they are to strong, then complain, don't kill the idea before you even saw it in practice.
In RL you can buy any gun you want, there is no such thing as civilian guns or Military, except few small pistols.
So in FL if you are putting any guns on your ship, you plan to shot with them, defend yourself, doesn't matter are you civilian or not.
So at least give even odds for defender against attacker, or close odds, as most of the attackers will be pirates with better weapons.
If you are looking in RP, codes should be very expensive and rare, and most of the folks couldn't use it then, except some rich ones.

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[MarvinCZ]

Wait, folks, what are we talking about here? There is NONE Civilian 2.00 or 4.00 guns. Nobody asks to make civilian ones something like codes or Nomad blasters.

Everyone are compaining about something that doesn't exist. Spazzy only asked to give at least some 2.00 or 4.00, and you all whine how they shouldn't be stronger then house ones, who did asked that they should be anyway? gosh.
It's a shame to me, that Freelancer needs to spent cash on codes to get solid stuff to be able to defend himself.

Just give some 2.00 or 4.00 guns, and if they are to strong, then complain, don't kill the idea before you even saw it in practice.

People stated that if there are to be guns in those refire rates, there will have to be weaker. I don't call that whining or complaining. That's just statement of a fact, one that needs to be stated beforehand. There were also some stats thrown in, and those were discussed. Stating the parameters that would need to be followed is not killing the idea.

In RL you can buy any gun you want, there is no such thing as civilian guns or Military, except few small pistols.

That very much depends on your local laws. It is true in some places and it definitely isn't in others. It also has absolutely no bearing on the topic.

So in FL if you are putting any guns on your ship, you plan to shot with them, defend yourself, doesn't matter are you civilian or not.
So at least give even odds for defender against attacker, or close odds, as most of the attackers will be pirates with better weapons.
If you are looking in RP, codes should be very expensive and rare, and most of the folks couldn't use it then, except some rich ones.

This isn't just about RP, it's actually mainly about server balance, but RP happens to agree mostly. Balance also isn't just about fighting chances.

[Zeltak]

Really, even if you implement 2.0 Civilian Gun McNeo, if it has 750 ms speed, I don't care if it only does 850 damage or something bad like that, I will take it over anything. You never give a 2.0 refire rate gun over 700 ms speed.

But let's not get into numbers or damage or whatever.

Main issues being, if you have a gun that is available to everyone it can also grant a Player unlimited Zone of Influence. This is a very powerful tool, something many of you seem to fail to grasp.

Anyone who was around in the 4.83 mod version knows that the standard load out was basically Codenames/Shield Busters/Nomad Cannons. You saw that everywhere, and why? Because it was universally available back then but also because it was a pretty good load-out in terms of Fighting.

Same thing will happen here if you aren't extremely careful. The reason I ask you that they should be weaker in every single aspect is because that will be the price of unlimited Zone of Influence. You can't have it both ways.

And to you Tommy, this is far from whining, it is being reasonable. Also, if you are trying to argue for Civilian guns for Pirates you are thinking very wrong. First of all, a Pirate is often if not always affiliated or tied to a criminal/unlawful faction, thusly you automatically have a similar or a complete copy of the diplomacy set by said criminal/unlawful faction. Point being, you usually can borrow the technology from the faction your Pirate is tied with unless you are really acting out of order, and then it is just self-deserved punishment. We are talking Civilian stuff here, for corporations and Freelancers.

However regardless, I do not see the point of 2.0 guns. I believe Codenames are enough in that area. Yes, a 4.00 gun wouldn't hurt though. But that is just a personal opinion, if the majority believes there should be an alternative for Codenames then so be it.

Also, people, please stop with the Real-Life comparisons. They never work in terms of balancing a Computer Game let alone something being heavily implemented to a Role-Play universe.

[ErikssonJeny]

Real Life =/= Good Game Balance

If every FPS or RPG or game would be realistic then you would always get 1 shoted..or wouldn't have trade lanes...or jump gates or whatever.

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"When you get the money, you get the power. When you get the power, you get the women."
-by Tony Montana

[Tommeh]

Alright, and what did I say?
Did I said they should be stronger then faction and house ones? No.
Did I said they should be equal to Codes/shield busters/Nomad cannons combination? No.

So, what's the problem? Marvin, RP is valid argument if it's against idea, but if it's otherwise then it's not?

Everyone are talking how in RP civilians shouldn't even have weapons, but mostly they have. well then in RP Codes should be very rare and expensive, and not avaliable to everyone, but mostly they are.
And yes Zeltak, if you want decent guns you need to chose some faction, this is something with what I don't agree, and I think it shouldn't be like that.
Anyway, at least try with 4.00 refire rate, and make them weaker then faction ones, and I don't see where the problem would be then.

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[Zeltak]

Everyone are talking how in RP civilians shouldn't even have weapons, but mostly they have. well then in RP Codes should be very rare and expensive, and not avaliable to everyone, but mostly they are.

No, the main issue is not RP-related, It's Player-related. Big difference.

And yes Zeltak, if you want decent guns you need to chose some faction, this is something with what I don't agree, and I think it shouldn't be like that.

Well I say one thing, you say the other. Opinions are opinions. But in this very issue here, it is irrelevant to Civilian Tech and the OP-request.

Anyway, at least try with 4.00 refire rate, and make them weaker then faction ones, and I don't see where the problem would be then.

I don't got no problems here either. I also like to see 4.00 guns. But I'm rather reluctant to the idea of 2.0's. It depends mostly on what stats you show me.