Quote:I still say bots/bats are an oorp representation of the pilot/crew's ability to repair their own ship, and have no business being traded or acknowledged inrp.
(07-25-2014, 07:05 AM)Knjaz Wrote: We once had a fight that lasted around 4 minutes, during which our Flagship, that also was the first focused one, chewed through around 8-12 thousands nanobots and batteries during it's course.
This is maybe naïve of me, but so what if the flagship dies? You can still play the game, you can still win/lose the battle, can't you?
It seems like a tiny problem compared to the way botfeeding can force a no-skill no-contest in the realm of snubs.
Just remove bots from gunboats and above. Bottrading among snubs doesn't do much harm. In fact, since getting focused in a group fight is kinda unfun, it's not a bad thing to get the other side to switch target every now and then. Allows for a more balanced out fight among the team.
Transports don't really need to have them removed either, since they die very quickly when focused in a group fight. Plus, multiplying the hull would mean transports can't be punished for not having armor by being instakilled via SNAC/Nova.
The repair beam used in other mods is very tricky and glitchy, and can be easily abused to 1-shot even the toughest ships because of how it adds hitpoints back to the target.
Without a repair beam, bot/bat feeding is the only way repair ships can actually fulfill their role. Thus, bat/bot feeding is an intended ability.
Quote:I still say bots/bats are an oorp representation of the pilot/crew's ability to repair their own ship, and have no business being traded or acknowledged inrp.
Now please, read bats and bots infocards ingame.
Quote:Nanobots
To repair basic material damage of a ship's hull or internal systems, these nanometer-scale artificial organisms are programmed to synthesize and apply the molecular building blocks as necessary
Quote:Shield battery
Made up of a sophisticated network of thousands of interconnected dendritic power cells, this matrix of densely-packed stores supply the enormous power necessary to operate the shields in all ships. The larger the shields generally, the larger the size or number of batteries.
So what's your point, Zayne? Those infocards might be sufficient for vanilla Freelancer. But in this mod, where we pay more close attention to the details, we must ask ourselves things like
"Who makes these items?"
"Where are they manufactured?"
"What materials are they made of, and who's supplying those materials?"
"Why is it that they're available for sale on every single base for the exact same price?"
"Why are they all the same in terms of quality?"
If your answer to these questions is "I don't know", then it would seem logical to declare them, as I did, OORP representations of the crew's capability to make repairs.
If your answer is "Humanity has figured out how to make them from readily available materials across Sirius", then I ask "Why can't large ships produce their own?"
(07-27-2014, 05:56 AM)Trogdor Wrote: So what's your point, Zayne? Those infocards might be sufficient for vanilla Freelancer. But in this mod, where we pay more close attention to the details, we must ask ourselves things like
"Who makes these items?"
"Where are they manufactured?"
"What materials are they made of, and who's supplying those materials?"
"Why is it that they're available for sale on every single base for the exact same price?"
"Why are they all the same in terms of quality?"
If your answer to these questions is "I don't know", then it would seem logical to declare them, as I did, OORP representations of the crew's capability to make repairs.
If your answer is "Humanity has figured out how to make them from readily available materials across Sirius", then I ask "Why can't large ships produce their own?"
First of all, if you have questions like that, you are free to write to Digital Anvil. Second, the way I see it is that the tech was developed long time ago and the patters ans schematics were distributed all over Sirius, eventually in the hands on unlawfuls. Third of all you have to ask yourself the question: '"If the nanobots repair basic damage, how do they repair a capitalship with 10000 damages, including engines, weapon bays and etc". And fourth How The Hell DId Gallia Get This Technology... ?
Edit: Cooperation is in the hearth of progress. I will give you an example.
During the cold war the west nations were highly developed, do you know why? A high bound of cooperative minds that created inventions and technologies and helped with the progress of the nations. The USSR didn't have even soft soap until 2 USSR agents were forced to go to Italy and get the inventor of the soft soap drunk. He than asks them "So why did you come here?", they told him the reason and he wrote the recipe for the soft soap on a wrapper. Thus ever since we have soft soap in Eastern Europe thanks to these 2 brave men.
Removing nanobots from snubs or trading nanobots between them would be horrible. Especially in group fights where not experienced people would be dying so quick that they would give up on snubs even faster than they are now.
(07-27-2014, 11:13 AM)Vrabcek Wrote: Removing nanobots from snubs or trading nanobots between them would be horrible. Especially in group fights where not experienced people would be dying so quick that they would give up on snubs even faster than they are now.
I agree.
(07-26-2014, 12:32 AM)karl Wrote: i dont understand the problem.
In any rl fight or war its normal to chare ammo and equipment.
what else is a carrier or repairship good for?
K, real-life examples are usually pretty bad. I'll show you why: Explain to me how an airplane gets repairs from a carrier without landing? Or how one B-52 transfers nukes to another B-52 mid-air?
(07-27-2014, 11:06 AM)Vredes Wrote: First of all, if you have questions like that, you are free to write to Digital Anvil. Second, the way I see it is that the tech was developed long time ago and the patters ans schematics were distributed all over Sirius, eventually in the hands on unlawfuls.
And, so, what? This tech that was developed 'a long time ago' hasn't been improved by anyone in all that time? And even if the tech was stolen by Gallic Junkers unlawfuls, the materials required to manufacture these miraculous nano-devices comes from...where?
Freelancer's economy is based on the principle that group A is good at producing things that group B can't produce for itself. The further away the goods come from, the more difficult it is to get it from A to B, and the higher the price, as a result. And so unless every group in Sirius is able to make these things from stuff they have lying around locally (which is dubious), logically there ought to be variances in price. But there aren't.
The same goes for ammo, really. But ammo doesn't really fall under the same 'weird miracle technology' column as bots/bats. It's much easier to imagine a ship, whether it be a fighter or a capital ship, jettisoning ammunition to be tractored in by another ship... than jettisoning nanobots/shield power cells that would logically be different... if not in form, then in packaging... from ship to ship.
Quote:Third of all you have to ask yourself the question: '"If the nanobots repair basic damage, how do they repair a capitalship with 10000 damages, including engines, weapon bays and etc". And fourth How The Hell DId Gallia Get This Technology... ?
This only serves to strengthen my argument: that they shouldn't be considered inRP items. That they are only an OORP representation of the pilot/crew's ability to repair THEIR OWN ship.