New core battleship

[NonSequitor]

The current Mako is an average light BS - nothing to write home about, but it can get the job done. It's balanced with the Order Osiris in mind, which makes sense, since they are the Core's primary enemy.

Having piloted the Geb in the previous patch, I do understand the OP's frustration. The Geb doesn't feel like a true carrier; it can defend itself quite well without any fighter support. If it had the firing arcs and maneuverability stats of the Zoner Aquilon, which handles like a carrier, this OP would have never been made.

[Lythrilux]

An OP Core battleship that can kill everything. How about no, get some RP to make these ships, why their OP, why you should inRP have them and all that, and I might consister it. Oh, and before you complain that the Mako can't do it. Ever try something called a destroyer? Its lighter, powerful and out turns a Geb and can easily destroy a Geb and Osiris by itself. I know it might be hard to take in that such a SMALL cap can do THAT much damage, but believe me, if you work as hard such as Carter, you to might defeat Geb's in Destroyers to!

In all seriousness, I honestly don't think the Core need an OP ship, they can kill everything on their own and their rather good. If you can get Lyth to agree to this and perhaps make an RP about how to make these ships then sure, why not.

Who necessarily says it's going to be OP? The Mako is the worst battleship in the Omicrons, furthermore I don't understand why we have a light battleship in the first place - it can't tank it's enemies (which is oddly what it's infocard implies it's meant to do) and it's also not very good for nomad material farming, which is part of our lore. Mako is already pretty big for a light BS, and seeing the size comparisons of these two models myself I can tell you that the Krackn is bigger.

How can you NOT counter one of the heavier and less defender CARRIER'S of discovery? How can you NOT kill one? But also the Legate and Ransure, if you honestly can't kill either of these two ships, your not either trying hard enough or something is not right. I mean, I nearly whipped the floor with you in a Recon cruiser. On the details of a nomad battleship, those are rare things to see, their overpowered but rarely anyone gets to use them anyways.

Well we can just throw a mixed fleet in but in a battleship vs battleship ship the Mako just can't perform.

If you cant counter a ship that turns almost as slow as a barge, that being the Marduk then there is something honestly wrong with your TS-skill...

You don't understand how bad the Mako is.

You're assuming as if all geb users and all mako/thresher users actually know what they are doing, and have the best of understanding.

When you're in a Geb you don't need to know what you're doing; it's tiny! Of course throw a non-Battleship ship at it and things can change, though it can still be somewhat hard.
Well no, not all have the skill to use the ship at their disposal to its best abilities, and trying to balance things with accordance to such claim would leave you nowhere.

A geb could kill a thresher if the pilot knows what they're doing, and the other way around. Same goes for makos-ossies, now maybe you are right that the mako is underpowered when it comes to fighting geb's to some extend, but that doesn't mean you are in need of a whole new ship just because whatever.

As I said before we need a new ship to cover a new role.

Also I haven't seen gebs TS'ing, maybe only in conn, so where did that come from? Since you come up with how tiny geb is, the thresher and bottlenose are tiny as hell too and thus somewhat OP, but people that fight against them still try to do their best with what they already have, and some of them succeed due to skill and not stats.

You could point me out for being a hypocrite here, but the Geb is a bit too small. The Battlecruiser model was basically given BS guns and barely upscaled. Now of course that's completely counterable with a mixed fleet and the right tactics/skill. It have significantly more armour than the Mako does and is of course a lot smaller: it just out competes the mako in everywhere. However maybe that just means that once a battleship like this is implemented, or if perhaps Mako gets new stats, things will change.

EDIT: You should also consider the impact on balance of that ship if being added to AP line. The whole AP line follows a certain shaping, from snubs to caps, and adding a cap that has little to no resemblance with that shaping (being even more combat friendly) would bring you on even a higher OP level, since running around with it along with a thresher on your side, would be pretty much like "kill everything you see".

I don't really follow your logic. Just counter it. The Thresher isn't overpowered - it has the least armour of of every Destroyer in it's ZoI, it can just be tanked. Order and Corsairs have both gained 'OP' ships in recent versons, that doesn't turn their whole line into an unkillable monster though. The thing is you could just use bombers instead of caps.

And btw... Mako isn't bad, just learn to use it properly?

Know what you're talking about before you talk about it. There is a knack to using it, but even then it's still a bad battleship. Slip up and you can still painfully lose to everything else.

3. I was thinking about thresher-battleship fights, you have two OP'ed ships that can deal great damage to a battleship while kiting all of its fire, that being the bottlenose and the thresher, that are seen on the field fairly often (and of course they are supposed to kill heavier ships) but adding this entirely new model to the picture would make things more OP.

Good =/= OP.
Both the Thresher and especially the Bottlenose can just be tanked. The Thresher has less hull than every other cruiser in the Omicrons and Omegas, it can be tanked by them. The Res has the huge advantage of having 4 CMs, so if things get too hot it can easily run away. The Bottlenose can just die to about everything other Gunboat out there (However right now Gunboat balance is really messed up and has deviated from the norm, though you can still tank it with other GBs).

4. Your ship line is complete and balanced aka lets see at Order - they have a carrier, but they don't have a battlecruiser etc. And I would prefer fighting with an overlord than with something that resembles the model being suggested, as it looks pretty OP - having a fwd gun and both strafe and TS friendly shape is a no go for balance, hence why valor has its fwd gun being a "compensation" for its rubbish TS abilities.

Yep, our shipline is sort of balanced to fight our enemies that is something I agree with.
I wouldn't call that Battleship OP yet - You won't know what it's like until you see it's hardpoints or it's stats.

RP Justification?

How would you say The Core made a new Battleship with small source of resources for example? I really don't see a point of adding new Ship for The Core if they have complete Ship Line.

About Order, OC and Sairs... Ye they have Light and Heavy variant of Battleships... APM has Battlecruiser and two gunships. No need to add another Battleship just because you can't kill a Geb?

RP Justification? We need a heavy battleship to hit things hard and fast, to compete with our enemies. We also need a viable ship for nomad farming.
Also we're not The Order, we're not limited in the resources we can gain because our diplomacy is far more gracious. didn't see any roleplay for the As I said above we'd require one to be more in line with our lore.

Support of all Houses is nice... But when for example Liberty, Rheinland or Kusari corps brought you some stuff? Not talking about loss of convoys if you are going through Gamma? Just an example... Samura prefers to supply Corsairs... Kishiro, DSE, Ageira and etc don't care about Omicrons because Profit > Danger.

Well if the restarts weren't so poorly constructed in the fact that every corp restarts as hostile to us, I could point to frequent evidences of people supplying our bases. If I dig back through lore however there are corps who supplied BHG Core. However as this is the present and not the past, I can only speak of a handful of supply ships that I see coming down now and again who have gone through the grueling process of repping themselves. There are also safer routes for going through the Omicrons, and before corps could go straight from Rheinland to Rho.
Also I'd like to see your evidence that corps don't care about the Omicrons.

Charging with Light BS is perfect tactic... With heavies okay, but with Mako? Here is your problem.

Mako is so big that kiting with it doesn't work properly either.

Even with Iridium 3/4 of house corps won't supply you. Why would they do that if there are perfect and safer routes in the House spaces? Like ores.

In game sell points are not reflective of their inRP ones.

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However if adding a new ship to our shipline really is that much of a problem, then I wouldn't mind just taking the Mako and giving it heavier stats and more guns.

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[Zen_Mechanics]

As far as I know, the core cruiser is by far the best cruiser in the game, and hence the best anti-battleship space-craft there is. What more do we need

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Were fools to make war on our brothers in arms.

[Lythrilux]

As far as I know, the core cruiser is by far the best cruiser in the game, and hence the best anti-battleship space-craft there is. What more do we need

Lighter ships tend to have the higher skill caps. A skilled player can make very good use of the Thresher. However, as I've said, the Thresher has less armour compared to other cruisers which can just tank it.

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[Wesker]

As far as I know, the core cruiser is by far the best cruiser in the game, and hence the best anti-battleship space-craft there is. What more do we need

Good against other bs, in duels it's average .

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[Wesker]

don't touch my Mako

I make good use of the mako, but taking down gebs is not easy, unless I have assistance.

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[Antagonist]

don't touch my Mako

I make good use of the mako, but taking down gebs is not easy, unless I have assistance.

Why should it be easy to take down another bs?

[Wesker]

don't touch my Mako

I make good use of the mako, but taking down gebs is not easy, unless I have assistance.

Why should it be easy to take down another bs?

I'm not saying it should be easy, that's why I'm arguing for a new bs altogether.

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[Tarator]

RP Justification? We need a heavy battleship to hit things hard and fast, to compete with our enemies. We also need a viable ship for nomad farming.

If you'd forgive me but those are the worst arguments you could come up with. Firstly, "heavy" doesn't go with "fast", its either the former or the later. Secondly, you can't be serious here, justifying it with nomad farming? Heh I didn't expect that coming.

If I have to be serious, nomad farming is fairly easy, even for zoner nephilims that are pretty useless for capital pvp unless tanking.
And for the rest, I guess I'd just quote that again in case you've missed it:

The whole problem I see with this ship being a potential AP addon, is its shape and fwd gun (not to mention you already have a complete ship line). As I already said, adding something that changes the shaping that AP follows completely, will change the way of how core tactics are handled in combat, and thus ruin the whole balance.

And to be more specific - lets say you have a mako and a thresher combo against an ossie and rehseph combo, on each side you have two ships that are in a way resembling each other and this is part of the balance itself.

And

As far as I know, the core cruiser is by far the best cruiser in the game, and hence the best anti-battleship space-craft there is. What more do we need

Lighter ships tend to have the higher skill caps. A skilled player can make very good use of the Thresher. However, as I've said, the Thresher has less armour compared to other cruisers which can just tank it.

This also doesn't matter much. Take Osiris and Murmillo as example, they both have low hull and low firepower which implies on them being ships that pay for skill, and skill only. Tanking is out of the question here, same goes for the thresher.

Also Lyth, light battleships are not supposed to tank enemies.
If you'd want a tanking battleship well, this is the worst possible decision to make, I would never recommend you to, see the turtle, its one big tank but its useless in almost every other way because thats the price you have to pay for your tank.
And in capital pvp, nobody would let you tank them if you're in a big ship, they'd just flee.

Good =/= OP.
Both the Thresher and especially the Bottlenose can just be tanked. The Thresher has less hull than every other cruiser in the Omicrons and Omegas, it can be tanked by them. The Res has the huge advantage of having 4 CMs, so if things get too hot it can easily run away. The Bottlenose can just die to about everything other Gunboat out there (However right now Gunboat balance is really messed up and has deviated from the norm, though you can still tank it with other GBs).

According to my experiences all this is false. Firstly, if you have two ships of the same class fighting, tanking will hardly happen unless both sides go for it. Because each class of capital ships has a certain thrust and impulse speed, and if you fight against a capital of your class, unless the enemy lets you tank them, you won't.

Secondly, thresher might have low hull, but has a very friendly combat shape and good agility, you have those to compensate your low hull, thus the thresher pays only for skill, just like the Osiris does, and I can't see any problem in that.

And lastly, the bottlenose is the tiniest thing I've fought against seriously, I fought those in gunboats and battleships alike and I have yet to score more than one kill on a bottlenose. Bottlenose having that combat friendly shape can evade a good amount of fire easily, and thus is very useful against battleships.

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[Chuba]

Core has complete ship line ?

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