(12-04-2017, 04:55 PM)Mephistoles Wrote: The game and server are both far too late in their lives to be starting taking things away from people. Blanket nerfing a bunch of IDs from 5,000 to 4,300 or 3,600 is going to do harm, not good. We need to be keeping the game as accessible as possible, not restricting it too much.
It's a better idea to introduce something extra, such as a small buff for shipping factions who don't mine. What exactly this could be, I couldn't say. I've heard the ideas of larger trade ships or ID locked commodities being floated, maybe something like that.
Give shipping factions 5.5k ships which is something extra, a bonus. It may be a good idea to limit them to official factions as a method of quality control and to provide an incentive to these factions.
Don't take away things people already have as that is a penalty and not constructive.
(02-28-2019, 12:39 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:
Lol, the usual negative vs positive change bullcrap. Whether you give something to A or take away something from B matters on a psychological level only, the relative change is the same, if they used to be equal before, A will become better than B no matter which path you take.
However if you only add and never take when balancing A and B to eachother, you'll just bloat numbers, profits, the economy, and might sooner or later hit the limits of the engine. That's where we are heading in a vicious spiral of buffin this, then that, then again this, then again that, with a mindset like the above.
The concept has discussion merit. But it is not fair. DSE has a mining component to their RP. They haul long distances. They build the Mastadon. It's their flag ship. They are the only Liberty legal mining faction.
The system ain't broken so why change. All you will do is p- off more players, and those factions lose members.
What is unfair is to have a faction with a mining bonus and then take away the mining fields appropriate to the faction. (E.g. Texas and Xeno artifacts in a closed unworkable and unprofitable planet.) Killed a lot of built up RP and destroying trade and smuggling.
(02-28-2019, 04:11 PM)[*USI*] Wrote: As one of the trading corporations listed on this thread I thought i'd give my two cents.
Big shipping corporations such as Cryer Pharmaceuticals and Orbital Spa & Cruise never exist because of the RP surrounding their factions. You wouldn't see Cryer or OSC trading in ores depleted from miners in the surrounding fields.
I think having a larger cargo vessel is a boost, but I also think a revision of the current market is definitely needed. For OS&C to RP transfer Cargo A to B there's literally no profit after having store Food Water Oxygen ext in your cargo too and only having such small ships as a Liner to be worthy of carrying passengers.
I think a change in the market of price of goods for OS&C passengers and same for Human Organs & pharmaceuticals , tourists ext to be given a boost we don't really need bigger ships to carry the same goods at a low price?
This is an interesting idea and one that i'd like to see trialled.
In it's current form, the idea would rely heavily on conformity of players with the RP (which won't happen), but perhaps this can be fixed.
I think there was an attempt before when they wanted to turn Zoner Cap Ships into Supertransports like these:
Which was planned for Zoners only ofc (cuz they can't dock on House Space with 5kers) but I realy like the idea of giving those factions like you mentioned a buff like that (or even a +new Transport). So yeah +1 from my side.
What about a system of bonuses like the mining plugin, but for traders? Coordinate your IFF, ID, ship, and commodity and you get a bonus at the sellpoint.
Factions whose primary source of income is mining can get a large mining bonus, but a small (or no) shipping bonus.
Factions whose primary source of income is shipping can get a large shipping bonus, but a small (or no) mining bonus.
Factions who do some of each can get a middling bonus to each. Nobody has their ships taken away, and people flying for shipping factions get the same profitability as their mining counterparts.
A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.
(12-04-2017, 04:55 PM)Mephistoles Wrote: The game and server are both far too late in their lives to be starting taking things away from people. Blanket nerfing a bunch of IDs from 5,000 to 4,300 or 3,600 is going to do harm, not good. We need to be keeping the game as accessible as possible, not restricting it too much.
It's a better idea to introduce something extra, such as a small buff for shipping factions who don't mine. What exactly this could be, I couldn't say. I've heard the ideas of larger trade ships or ID locked commodities being floated, maybe something like that.
Give shipping factions 5.5k ships which is something extra, a bonus. It may be a good idea to limit them to official factions as a method of quality control and to provide an incentive to these factions.
Don't take away things people already have as that is a penalty and not constructive.
(02-28-2019, 12:39 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:
Lol, the usual negative vs positive change bullcrap. Whether you give something to A or take away something from B matters on a psychological level only, the relative change is the same, if they used to be equal before, A will become better than B no matter which path you take.
However if you only add and never take when balancing A and B to eachother, you'll just bloat numbers, profits, the economy, and might sooner or later hit the limits of the engine. That's where we are heading in a vicious spiral of buffin this, then that, then again this, then again that, with a mindset like the above.
(02-28-2019, 12:22 PM)SnakThree Wrote:
(02-28-2019, 12:19 PM)Decerius Wrote: Limit Mining factions to 4,3ker and only allow "trading" factions (Factions that have no mining bonus, for example: IC, USI, Bowex etc.) to fly 5ker.
Taking away assets is harsh method. It would not only limit available ship models but would lower profit rates for those ships. While giving new supertransports to house corps without mining bonuses would be positive addition to game.
I think perhaps we’re overlooking many of the implications of surpassing the 5k mark. The trading economy, mining economy and POB mechanic were largely built around this number. This is because money hungry players will always utilise the optimal means that the mod has to offer. This cap is there as the uppermost limit of what can be earned over time, and thus sets the pace of the game.
What we could potentially gain has been discussed, though what it would cost is a necessity to redesign the economy from it’s foundation. You’d also need to consider the implications of powertraders flocking to these new routes, how it shifts activity and if it concentrates it. How will this affect midnight trading when you no longer need a buddy to mine for the best profit? On the back of this, how will this affect convoy trading? Given our currently vague rules on who can smuggle, could these ships potentially be used for smuggling? If so do we also need to revisit the smuggling dynamic which requires not just a balance of profit, but RP.
It’s a tricky situation. And i’m not seeing the scales weighted enough for what we could gain as a community to back this idea. Since most of what i’ve read would only be to the benefit of individuals and seemingly reduce cooperative play.
What about combat 5ks with ship-locked, zero-cargo equipment (turrets, shield, thruster, and +20 cargo space for a UAU) for Trade-Focused factions? It'd give Shipping-Focused factions a defensive edge over ore haulers, without having any extra cargo space over those who run no-gun-freighter-shield 5k'ers. Maybe something like 5-EMP Flaks for the class-specific loadout, so that they don't entirely replace current Combat Transports, but aren't entirely useless with standard turret ranges due to their sheer size (assuming they'd be even bigger than current 5ks).
Alternatively, I would go so far as to give Shipping-Focused factions 6-7k monstrosities, but at a price: FLHook would prevent you from ever hauling ore, or miners from filling you up with ore. This prevents their use in the mining industry, while giving them an advantage in standard commodity/PoB supply shipping. If the PoB supplying advantage would make too many people /RAGE, then you could always just FLHook PoB supplies too. This all assumes that it's even a possibility in FLHook to prevent "X Ships" from picking up "Y Commodities," of course.
I realize you can't please everyone here, but that's where the word "compromise" can come into play. Again, just a few ideas!
(03-01-2019, 04:30 PM)Sand_Spider Wrote: Just throwing ideas into the pot, here.
What about combat 5ks with ship-locked, zero-cargo equipment (turrets, shield, thruster, and +20 cargo space for a UAU) for Trade-Focused factions? It'd give Shipping-Focused factions a defensive edge over ore haulers, without having any extra cargo space over those who run no-gun-freighter-shield 5k'ers. Maybe something like 5-EMP Flaks for the class-specific loadout, so that they don't entirely replace current Combat Transports, but aren't entirely useless with standard turret ranges due to their sheer size (assuming they'd be even bigger than current 5ks).
Alternatively, I would go so far as to give Shipping-Focused factions 6-7k monstrosities, but at a price: FLHook would prevent you from ever hauling ore, or miners from filling you up with ore. This prevents their use in the mining industry, while giving them an advantage in standard commodity/PoB supply shipping. If the PoB supplying advantage would make too many people /RAGE, then you could always just FLHook PoB supplies too. This all assumes that it's even a possibility in FLHook to prevent "X Ships" from picking up "Y Commodities," of course.
I realize you can't please everyone here, but that's where the word "compromise" can come into play. Again, just a few ideas!
I don't think limiting mining companies smaller transports will suffice in fact it will break mining companies. I'm all for above if FLHook can block certain commodities entering your hold for (Even certain ID's) So it doesn't go on the ship but the ID you're carrying, i.e if it was Universal we couldn't collect ores ext.
Why are people so fixated on cargo blocking? What do shipping companies currently do, if they are carrying ores; they pay a miner to fill their holds. Only difference with a bigger ship cargo, is a bigger price paid to the miner...