Patch When? #3 - Dev Diary - Economic Reform™

[Demonic]

Oh - so PoBs are basically way less vital for good profits now?
Mining will just sell to NPC bases, PoBs can just refine for slightly higher c/s in further places?

That depends. Single POB with refinery 2 can produce quite a lot of refined metal per day - 92,400 in transport volume. That's over 18 hauls for 5Kers or over 25 hauls for 3,6Kers and that's without a faction bonus. So just in term of quantity, I think the base absolutely can produce enough commodity to supply players, while still not producing too much as to make multiple bases redundant.

Now, If the NPC price for raw ore is low enough and the price for refined ore is high enough, PoB can be still quite vital because it will be able to offer higher price for raw ore than NPC and lower price for refined ore than NPC and still be profitable for both players and POB owners. It really is just a matter of how large the price difference between raw and refined will be for NPC prices.

Yes, there is certainly a risk of POBs being redundand if the NPC prices are too close to each other so the bases can't offer signifficantly better prices, but that's a matter of numbers not mechanics. Sure, there inevitably will be a certain drop in the necessity of the bases, since you can now buy the high paying cargo from NPCs, which wasn't the case before, but if the price difference the POB can offer is HIGH enough, players will still use them.

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[Haste]

Now, If the NPC price for raw ore is low enough and the price for refined ore is high enough, PoB can be still quite vital because it will be able to offer higher price for raw ore than NPC and lower price for refined ore than NPC and still be profitable for both players and POB owners. It really is just a matter of how large the price difference between raw and refined will be for NPC prices.

It will be. @Aingar conveniently coded a little FLHook solution to allow us to prevent the producers of these HRCs from buying back their product, allowing us to set very high prices for them without creating silly 30-second trade routes. It should be fairly easy to set things up so that PoBs can produce the same HRCs for substantially less while offering a better price for the ore required. Just a matter of setting the numbers right, like you said.

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[jammi]

Oh - so PoBs are basically way less vital for good profits now?
Mining will just sell to NPC bases, PoBs can just refine for slightly higher c/s in further places?

That depends. Single POB with refinery 2 can produce quite a lot of refined metal per day - 92,400 in transport volume. That's over 18 hauls for 5Kers or over 25 hauls for 3,6Kers and that's without a faction bonus. So just in term of quantity, I think the base absolutely can produce enough commodity to supply players, while still not producing too much as to make multiple bases redundant.

Now, If the NPC price for raw ore is low enough and the price for refined ore is high enough, PoB can be still quite vital because it will be able to offer higher price for raw ore than NPC and lower price for refined ore than NPC and still be profitable for both players and POB owners. It really is just a matter of how large the price difference between raw and refined will be for NPC prices.

100%, spot on. This is exactly what we're trying to design for. Although to clarify, the two listed recipes can both be produced in the relevant refinery. It just means you have the option between choosing T1 for less complicated inputs and less output, or T2 which needs a bit more work but is more efficient. Potentially we'll add more tiers in the future, but the fact that these have to be duplicated by fuel type means that could get messy and snowball quickly.

Yes, there is certainly a risk of POBs being redundand if the NPC prices are too close to each other so the bases can't offer signifficantly better prices, but that's a matter of numbers not mechanics. Sure, there inevitably will be a certain drop in the necessity of the bases, since you can now buy the high paying cargo from NPCs, which wasn't the case before, but if the price difference the POB can offer is HIGH enough, players will still use them.

And this is what we're hoping to avoid. I've asked for a community refineries feedback forum to be set up on the community Discord, so I'll be workshopping numbers and taking suggestions there too, soon. If the refineries don't pan out the way we're hoping, adjusting prices and outputs is a simple matter of adjusting a config file.

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[Sombs]

Just for my understanding, the high risk high reward commodities are going to be, as right now, have a better profit margin than regular goods but not as much as refined goods, right?

I think that'd kind of a shame, since smugglers can get intercepted both by lawfuls and unlawfuls, while your average ore hauler offers nothing in terms of gameplay for lawful players.

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[Demonic]

Just for my understanding, the high risk high reward commodities are going to be, as right now, have a better profit margin than regular goods but not as much as refined goods, right?

I think that'd kind of a shame, since smugglers can get intercepted both by lawfuls and unlawfuls, while your average ore hauler offers nothing in terms of gameplay for lawful players.

If I understand it correctly, than the "high paying cargo" are the refined products. It's just that the profit margin for trader will be (well should be) much lower if you buy it from NPC than from a POB.

And a question - from a glance at a navmap, there seems to not be that many scrap metal fields, expecially in the deeper space, however there are quite a lot of 'roid fields. How about allowing to produce the Basic Alloy from 'roid fields too? Seems logical, asteroid mining is a staple in most space game with economy.

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[St.Denis]

One question I am still awaiting an answer on, what happens to those POBs that have ore stored on them and they suddenly take up 2 spaces instead of the 1 currently?

Are Owners advised to resuce their holdings by 50%?

And the same for ships?

Are you going to announce this before the Update?

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[jammi]

I've just checked and POBs should accept the volume increase without any trouble.

If the cargo limit is exceeded, you won't be able to sell anything else to it until it's back under the limit again, so you may want to refine or remove the Ore before it interferes with upkeep supplies.

For ships, its possible that undocking with too much cargo would trigger the anticheat and result in a kick. For safety it'd be best to sell the cargo pre patch, or to the station you're on before you undock.

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[LuckyOne]

Just so you know, I expect full credit for all the ideas that @Haste and @Aingar have stolen from me have been incepted into the minds of those responsible for this full eco rework.




Jokes aside, this is shaping up to be the grandest patch of Disco's whole lifetime.

It's only a shame it took the game almost dying to get it to this point.

I'm also sad that the idea about illegal Space Weed™ and Space Meth™ labs didn't make it, but one can only hope they are just a small patch away now when we have competent coders with some free time at the helm (and hydroponics labs which are basically that with another recipe )

Still rooting for the new Junker thievery capabilities with the improved tractor beam speed to make an appearance in some form...


And I must notice that the new Dev patch blogs format is wonderful!

Good job, everyone!

[Czechmate]

Yes, this format is great, and I hope is a regular feature going forward, not just for this patch. Between this and feedback hashtag on discord it feels like the staff actually care about the community.

[Lord Chaos]

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Bretonia Mining and Manufacturing (BMM)
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Now how will this work with OF with diferent drop rates than the NPC faction?

Will OF be prompted to change theyr drop rates or will the bonus be added to the faction? be added
Sounds interesting developments comming , still dont understand why isnt there a Hydroponics module yet as it exists today...

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