I fix this problem by giving my Order characters a marked dislike of Corsairs.
Because they're dirty pirate cannibal smugglers distributing alien technology all over Sirius.
But.... yes.
The Order is big and mysterious and very powerful, made of pilots from all over Sirius and led by some of the greatest minds in Sirius.
I doubt that they need pirates to train their pilots, and I doubt that they would want to give pirates their technology.
In my opinion, there isn't much reason for the alliance, as the Order has individuals with links all over Sirius. As an organization, it should definitely be aloof.
And about the Outcasts:
We're certainly not enemies.
I don't take the Order's "alliances" past what they simply state, no deriving allies and enemies from the factions we're "allied" with.
Naturally, as they have some contact with the Nomads, the Order would not be overly welcoming of them, and would be a little bit suspicious - but there haven't been any mass infections of Nomads into the Outcast civilization, and they're really just human beings taking something the way it isn't really, but the way it appears.
' Wrote:In Role-Play I have not seen any information regarding the Corsairs perceiving the Nomads as a serious threat. Could be wrong on that one.
Havent seen it in rp either. But I seen COrsaires finding the alliance very useful to them in in-game rp. Just saying that... its not a contradition that Order and Corsaires help each other.
' Wrote:Yes less Bounty hunters but again, common enemy does not constitute an official alliances. An official alliance can produce diplomatic consequences which the Order has already received, they can be engaged by the Outcasts because they are openly allying themselves with the Corsairs.
*cough* Western allies+Soviet Union alliance*cough* common enemy *cough*
' Wrote:Outcast aren't "allying" themselves with the Nomads but merely targeting a common enemy. Again, see reference Corsairs and the Order attacking Bounty Hunters. Could work the same way.
My assumption is that Outcasts worship nomads, but nomads just use them as a tool. An alliance would work in both ways with Nomads protecting Outcasts too, so I agree. But I think in some info card it said OC can take nomad side in a fight.
' Wrote:The Corsairs are a selfish group of pirates who only think off themselves this is not a biased view but a Role-Play one. They are pirates, says it all really?
Well... they are a nation that have their own plannet and 'civilisation'. Their plannet is just a miserable piece of rock with a biosphere that cant support their population. So they pirate (and eat people, sometimes when they got no choice). But they are not pirates in the sense like the rogues, who live off the back o f a civilisation. The rogues are petty criminals, while the Corsaires are struglling to survive and dont have much choice. I think if needed, the Order would also ally itself with petty criminals. Because they are not police. They are fighting for the survival of all humans.. lawful, petty criminals, and desperate cannibals alike. They still prefer those over the nomads.
' Wrote:Yep its based off Vanilla, still does NOT justify the stuff that happened in the time/era of vanilla Freelancer to still be marked as valid, now as in the time of version 4.85. Also, when did I even begin talking about BSG and Startrek?
You didnt. Was just an example to strengthen the point that its based of FL and it should therefore be consistant with the SP.
' Wrote:Well, the Order gain nothing. The Corsairs saves resources and pilots. Already said that. An alliance is only efficient if both parties gain a benefit. An alliance is NOT efficient if only one said gain benefit, or only one said gain the major benefit (this is the case of this alliance, Corsair gets some benefits, but nothing worth throwing away their resources for.)
In server ballance sense Order gains nothing. Corsaires would harldy pirate them anyway becasue they dont have traders. In a rp sense, they gain ... a lot... what can I say... resources, ships, contacts... etc etc etc.
In a rp sense, Corsaires gain... contacts, help in battles, and they also gain someones who protects humanity from nomads. Oh... and people who buy artifacts. In a server ballance sense, they gain pretty much the only ally they got against the all-powergul OC mob.
' Wrote:I have every right to assume some arguments are Role-Play oriented and some are not, makes sense if treated case-by-case. Of course I'm lobbying, that is the point of arguing. Everyone in Discovery is biased don't even begin there...
I know. Exactly my point. You were the one brought up the 'lobbying point'.
' Wrote:This one I agree with you, the Corsairs are having trouble with alliances and their main enemy, the Outcast have too many. Hopefully this can be fixed but I don't believe it is with the current alliance set-up for them.
' Wrote:Sina, which mod version are you playing? O.O
We've lost the Mollies, the Dragons, the Hessians and the Bundschuh, and our one attempt at diplomacy, trying to go neutral to the CR, got stepped on by, guess who, the Corsairs. There IS no Outcast Alliance anymore.
Uhm... about the OC allies that are suposed to be allies according to the info cards jumping off the alliances with the OC... I think has to do with the behavior of some OC players towards them or people in general... as players...
You... or those players... brought it on you.
Still, look at alpha. You got between 3-12 OC Battleships in alpha or other system at all time. And 100 more people that are right now on different ships but got at least 1 OC cap ship in reerve. OC dont NEED any allies, in a server ballance sense.
Well, yet again I come here with a mind to history. What would the Order be without their ships? What would they be without weapons? What would they be without protection from the Corsairs? What would the Corsairs be without their tech? What would the Corsairs be without some friendly neighbor in the Omicrons?
First off the treaty between the Order and Corsairs has brought both side alot in the past. Just because they are dont think they are getting as much from it now does not mean that it should be done away with. The Cold War is over, and the Cold War was the reason NATO was established, does that mean now it needs to be done away with? You dont just remove an Alliance between two neighbors without having a very very good reason.
Also, think about the people who would be involved, the Order and Corsairs have been working together for a long time, they have developed personal relations on both sides, and aside from your assertion, I doubt the members of the Order would see the Corsairs as "Cannibal Pirates" and would instead see them as comrades in arms, and when those personal relations are developed between the groups, it is hard to say they are not getting anything from each other.
' Wrote:We've lost the Mollies, the Dragons, the Hessians and the Bundschuh, and our one attempt at diplomacy, trying to go neutral to the CR, got stepped on by, guess who, the Corsairs. There IS no Outcast Alliance anymore.
Really Eppy? More with the unfounded Corsair bashing? Isnt it getting old for you yet? I love the in your mind the cause of every single problem for the game is the Corsairs. First all the Corsairs did was cancel their alliances with the CR, mind you, exactly what would be expected in rp. I suggest you go and look to the other members of the council of Dons for blame on that, but I guess it's just like your views on Omicron Eta, not an outcast to be seen anywhere, huh?
I personally think its pointless this allience and thats one of my motives for the Order Rebellion and we have other internal issues aswell but like someone previously mentioned Order protect humanity corsairs kill innocent traders. To me its not right..
' Wrote:I personally think its pointless this allience and thats one of my motives for the Order Rebellion and we have other internal issues aswell but like someone previously mentioned Order protect humanity corsairs kill innocent traders. To me its not right..
I think it got double posted because there was some sql too many connections message while you posted (at least I got one).
Weeellll personnally... I dont agree with all the rp of the Order guys either, but this rebellion... how do oyu argue 'Order should concenetrate fighting nomads more' and then you fight the ORder yourelf.
For the primary fleet... you should keep in mind that too many players, especially new players ...want to play as Order. That results in the faction being bigger than it would make sense bein in RP, and its hard to keep all those guys organized. And there arent enough keepers for all orer to fight them all the time. Order| arent doing that bad a job, if you consider that.
The Order dosen't really provide real protection or assistance in any concrete form to the Corsairs.
I believe the alliance with the Gaians is going to be ended in the next mod or I read about it at least. Regardless if it stays, this one can only provide the Corsairs with assistance when they raid/attack Bretonia-owned systems.
And last but not least, the Hogosha alliance is just one produced out of artifact smuggling. Again, this is a good example of an alliance formed to benefit both parties.
All in all, the Corsairs never really had an alliance similar to the Red Hessian/Outcast one or the Outcast/Lane Hacker/Liberty Rogues one. That sort of real alliance were both parties actively assisted each other in all different forms (economically or just fighting together.)
What I'm trying to say is, either provide the Corsairs with a solid alliance that is clear or don't form one at all due to necessities.