' Wrote:If I were running this show, I'd make it so that the admins would talk about the stories and judge on them infront of the whole community. The problem with that, is that unfortunately not a lot of people might not quite trust the judgement of the administrative team, not because they don't deserve it but because we're all equal as human beings and we should all get the same respect because of that. However, it brings you down to the idea that is often ignored; administrators probably deserve to determine whether or not your ship gets to pass.
From a once-administrator from a WoW RP server who used to do applications for Prestige Classes, it's important to offer constructive criticism so instead of saying "no, goodbye" it's "no, try again". But you see, this only really works in a community which understands the concept of simple-complex, which goes along the theory of "even if it seems like it's simple, it's actually very complex". This technique is used primarily by very experienced RolePlayers who've been around quite a bit, and basically it's like taking a very simple idea or stereotypical character concept and developing it beyond it's limits without breaking the simple or stereotypical character concept. But I digress, this type of level is only where we would prefer the community to be at.
If the majority of the community had the idea of using other peoples techs sparingly, understanding that using other faction tech is a privlidge, and saw it as something that was rare, bizarre, and in some cases exotic, then we wouldn't be talking right now. Problem is with the people, not the tech; the best thing to do is not to disagree with the proposal but rather try to understand it better. I don't know very much about the specific subject at hand, but I can guarantee you that the administrators didn't just do this for shoots and giggles, they did it because they felt it was the most appropriate action for the community, and that's something I can respect regardless of my opinion.
If you're feeling fundimentalist, we should try to create larger awareness to this subject and promote the correct form of behavior, not just OOCly but also ICly. Talking about the problem is not against the rules, so you're doing really well. Keep discussing, but remember, this isn't about who can have bigger text or give a wittier response, it's about having an intelligent discussion, which so far looks to be going mildly smooth.
If I didn't know better, I would say you're my alt. Nice sig/avvy (I was the resident C&H person a while ago). And better points.
Obviously SRPs are pretty cool, they give you something special to acknowledge and legitimize your roleplay as being 'beyond the norm,' but couldn't you just display that in the game with how your character behaves? If my pirate gunboat was in a cruiser, you can bet your bottom dollar I would behave the exact same way as I do while in a gunboat (assuming the cruiser was also granted the right to pirate). If Wesley Richter, all those years ago, had given up his Wrath for an LWB Eagle when he found himself fleeing the RM for his life, and then fighting back, he would have been the same basic character. The ship or tech or whatever can add a certain flair, but ultimately it's just pizzazz, frosting on the cake or pepperoni on the pizza.
EDIT: Also, good luck repairing the Odin and keeping it stocked on parts half of Sirius away from the nearest Hessian base. But of course, the mechanics on the bases have universal parts and knowledge to deal with every ship we could possibly bring to them.
So the latent threat to Eva's competition, that she can pull a heavy weapon on them, in fact a weapon they cannot effectively duplicate, means nothing. It says nothing of the quality of criminal she represents, or the extent of her personal power, and instead she should be completely tied to an arbitrary criminal organization, the Rogues, and act according to the faction's orders while pretending to be "independent", at least until the guns start firing, at which point the entirety of her story goes down the drain...
You're also insinuating that I can "imagine" my way in and out of scenarios while playing on a game made up of ones and zeroes...
' Wrote:Eva is a JUNKER with a Rogue Scylla casero:P
And really, yes, I,could do that. But really, why? If I roleplsy a Hessian who defected to the,Order, why,should he have to give up,his ship? wouldnt it also be roleplay he went on patrol and never returned? Whats wrong with that?! Its roleplay, and wouldnt someone want a ship they are familiar with to fly, and not something entirely new.
I'm not saying that it's not Role Play, but that it's unnecessary, and that there must be limits, are we ready to allow anyone flying whatever they want playing whatever role they want? Are really we ready for that? It's obvious I am not, but that's not the problem, the problem would be if you are not ready and you don't know it.
Take your example and apply it to every ID, ship and faction, tell me how you see the server if it's free for all.
SRP means "Special", we all understand those toys are rare, not very common... and uterly unfair for those who don't have them. I imagine SRPs still open, and someone who don't know Eva, writes a similar story as good as Eva's and applies for SRP, and because Eva got here first, his SRP gets dennied. So, unfair for the new guy.
Why did it get dennied? Because, at some point, the server would be filled with Eva's. That all the characters are unique, it doesn't have to mean that they all must be "special", there shouldn't be 1 Special character, uniques yes, not special.
With that I'm saying that yes, old SRPs should be removed, to stop unfairness.
Take your example, and tell me how different, excepting a PvP aspect, would it be if he flies a Basket instead of an Odin.
' Wrote:EDIT: Also, good luck repairing the Odin and keeping it stocked on parts half of Sirius away from the nearest Hessian base. But of course, the mechanics on the bases have universal parts and knowledge to deal with every ship we could possibly bring to them.
Lets see.
1.) The Order. Where there's a will there's a way.
2.) Analyzing a ship you have...eh...and production facilities...
3.) Same way Erikkson keeps his Order| Wraith working
Yeah, its just frosting, but really, why shouldnt we have frosting?
There are a gazillion regular puretech NPCs, not to mention normal people on the planets and stations.
As someone said, we're the ones who,gotta be unique.
Why? To have fun.
And tell me.
How do you Reavers keep those Corsair guns working? Iniversal parts and skilled mechanics?
The,differenve is he has a bit more, that frosting. You get some more flavor. Pop into minor, OMGOSIRISES. Then you,get there, you see an Odin. Its for:
1.) Fun
2.) Being different
3.) Gives you something to be proud,of.
No difference at all. None. Its done because you wanted to, to have fun. Whats wrong with someone wanting to make a different combination? Why not motivate people to deepen their roleplay, expand it all? Really, why not?
Yes, some things are illogical. But for those that have some logic, why should they not get a chance to try?
' Wrote:I'm not buying any of your arguments thus far. They're based on this vague concept that "roleplay exceeds what exists on the server", yet on the server things are concrete and exist as they are. You cannot make a mountain out of a mole hill. To say that "the ship doesn't make a character" is, in essence, claiming that a game using nothing but ships is somehow more encompassing than that.
Quote:I'm sure everybody wants to be a stereotypical military officer, or pirate, or zoner forever
' Wrote:only really works in a community which understands the concept of simple-complex, which goes along the theory of "even if it seems like it's simple, it's actually very complex". This technique is used primarily by very experienced RolePlayers who've been around quite a bit, and basically it's like taking a very simple idea or stereotypical character concept and developing it beyond it's limits without breaking the simple or stereotypical character concept.
I don't understand that people who come to a debate don't seem to read nor get a jist of where we are in the subject matter. Dude, you even used "stereotypical"! C'mon, you're bumming me out here.
This isn't the place to be discussing advanced RolePlaying techniques nor is it the place to be talking about the philosophical and physical realisms of the in-game, but rather focused on the removal of the SRP system and discussion on how the community feels about it and how it can be made better. But if you must, I will elaborate on the subject you are talking about to try to help end the sub-discussion.
I can see what you mean, and if you want to be a super realist, yes, that is what's on there. Please, no more cynicalism or technical standpoints; we are in the world of imagination BEYOND that of the virtual reality given. If my character inside the ship actually is covered in scars or something, we would never figure out because according to your superhardcore logic that I am clearly overexaggerating, he would never have skin to bare scars unless his skin is the space uniform the pilot has on. Also, that pilot inside your ship wouldn't actually have any ideas because quite frankly he is not shown or to be assumed there is anything inside of him, so why insinuate he's a person at all? It's because he isn't. He's a graphic, a tool for us to bring artistic expression through, and that's why you're not quite correct.
I do agree, though, I believe the RolePlay would be enhanced if we had concrete things that weren't quite "imaginaton based". I believe that the ship a character has may accurately reflect who the character is, as the character will most likely pick a ship that is concurrent with their affiliations and style in combat. The biggest problem I've seen here is that RolePlay doesn't appear to happen anywhere except where it actually happens in-game. . .Either in space, or in a bar somewhere. While that's all fine and dandy, I urge you, it's not the only place RolePlay can exist, it's only the most common and easily recognizable. So, I hope that clears up, we're not quite off topic but lets try re-steering this back in the right directon.
' Wrote:So the latent threat to Eva's competition, that she can pull a heavy weapon on them, in fact a weapon they cannot effectively duplicate, means nothing. It says nothing of the quality of criminal she represents, or the extent of her personal power, and instead she should be completely tied to an arbitrary criminal organization, the Rogues, and act according to the faction's orders while pretending to be "independent", at least until the guns start firing, at which point the entirety of her story goes down the drain...
You're also insinuating that I can "imagine" my way in and out of scenarios while playing on a game made up of ones and zeroes...
Yeah.. no. This isn't going to go anywhere.
Michael Corleone killed all his competition while he was on his godson's baptism, just to point out how the quality of a criminal doesn't need a big gun to be played out.
The Joker, gunboats lover, do you think he would have done better on a cruiser? Does this mean anything but a PvP aspect? He applied for Terrorist ID, they didn't give it to him, and yet, with a simple Pirate ID, he accomplished all what he got, and we all know how famous he is/was. He figured how to play his character, that he wanted to have Terrorist ID, with a Pirate ID.
I'm pretty sure Eva is great, not for having a Scylla, now that you mentioned the type of cruiser, I met her once in New York, Rochester base. How scaring is a Junker in New York with a Scylla, who can't get very far outside the scrap fields without having the navy blasting her ship, and not being able to pirate in house space.
What kind of advantage that cruiser gives to her? Sure, she can pirate in independent space, great against traders.
So, her greatness, is not because of the ship, but because how she is.
Quote:You're also insinuating that I can "imagine" my way in and out of scenarios while playing on a game made up of ones and zeroes...
' Wrote:I do agree, though, I believe the RolePlay would be enhanced if we had concrete things that weren't quite "imaginaton based". I believe that the ship a character has may accurately reflect who the character is, as the character will most likely pick a ship that is concurrent with their affiliations and style in combat. The biggest problem I've seen here is that RolePlay doesn't appear to happen anywhere except where it actually happens in-game. . .Either in space, or in a bar somewhere. While that's all fine and dandy, I urge you, it's not the only place RolePlay can exist, it's only the most common and easily recognizable. So, I hope that clears up, we're not quite off topic but lets try re-steering this back in the right directon.
Enhanced, yes. Necessary for the development of a character? This is where I say no.
I do agree with what you said about Role Play.
There was a BAF member playing a kusarian who defected. He had a Templar, with BAF ID, BAF guns, japanese name, and if you talked to him, he would tell you he was born in kusari, should I tell him "hey you are not a kusarian, you have a templar", of course not, he was as kusarian as my KNF.
Now, many people like to think that if he had a Chimaera it would enforce the idea that he was a kusarian, but not really, it would just mean that he stole the ship, he would still be a defector from kusari, he would still fight the KNF. The only difference would be that I would have to aim better to that unfair OverPowered VHF. (Damn Dab's gonna read that)
"The real problem with looking at stories and determining which are good and which are bad is that everyone thinks theirs is good, everyone thinks they should be given special permission, everyone thinks they have put enough time into their story to be approved.
When they don't get what they think they deserve, they yell and yell and yell and we end up with threads like that recent one about Corsair tech use. People are always going to think they deserve what they want.
I will end with my favorite Dusty Lens quote which is very on point for this topic.
"The juice just aint worth the squeeze." " (Zelot)
what would have helped is "utmost transparency" - it still leaves the taste of unfairness of course - cause opinions are subjective - but at least one gets to know why there has been a rejection and why there has been an approval.
it does however expose the admins and their opinions and makes them vulnerable. both ways - secrecy and transparency offer the same amount of benefits and dangers - but at least transparency is solid, you have a basis to argue about instead of rumor.
but that is a greater problem as a whole - much of the communities "conspiracy theories" which run deeper than joking about might suggest - originate from the lack of transparency. - it happens in many communities.... and once rumor turns solid - things become troublesome.
' Wrote:"The real problem with looking at stories and determining which are good and which are bad is that everyone thinks theirs is good, everyone thinks they should be given special permission, everyone thinks they have put enough time into their story to be approved.
When they don't get what they think they deserve, they yell and yell and yell and we end up with threads like that recent one about Corsair tech use. People are always going to think they deserve what they want.
I will end with my favorite Dusty Lens quote which is very on point for this topic.
"The juice just aint worth the squeeze." " (Zelot)
what would have helped is "utmost transparency" - it still leaves the taste of unfairness of course - cause opinions are subjective - but at least one gets to know why there has been a rejection and why there has been an approval.
it does however expose the admins and their opinions and makes them vulnerable. both ways - secrecy and transparency offer the same amount of benefits and dangers - but at least transparency is solid, you have a basis to argue about instead of rumor.
but that is a greater problem as a whole - much of the communities "conspiracy theories" which run deeper than joking about might suggest - originate from the lack of transparency. - it happens in many communities.... and once rumor turns solid - things become troublesome.
But doesnt just not having SRP's make that issue moot?
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