oh, i am 100% sure that ex- CRI can come up with perfect biodomes and maximized harvest - the question is just if they WANT to.
i reckon that a synthfood biodome is not quite a place of beauty and contemplation and not really an icon of a faction that fights for untouched nature ( even if it only concerns one planet )
but you are of course right - if they wanted to - they could.
So , Conclusion thus far is , there is two sides to a coin.
At one hand , building a biodome in the vacuum of space does not screw up a existing ecosystem.
At the other hand , maybe the Gaian's love for nature goes so far that they feel putting plants in organised rows with no other purpose than using their harvest as food is a act against the freedom of nature.
In the latter case , would Gaians like the idea of building space stations at all?
Is their fight for nature based on rational or irrational principals?
@ Jinx: your post on the other page: That's basically close to my pov as well. Just domes that can mimic a surface environment...not meant to be exclusively for farming per se (although portions can & should be used for it to supplement station foodstuffs) but primarily to provide areas to keep gaians close to nature...be it park/recreation/housing/whatever areas, as well as bonus Co2 scrubbing/O2 creation, ect. It's easy to establish inrp how & why the Gaians would put them into use & specifics on the differences of a Gaian dome as opposed to one of synthfood manufacture.
...as for the naysayers, It's simply & honestly, difficult for me to reply to the ones that don't understand how logical it is in much the same way I would find it hard to explain to someone why water is wet:crazy:
@ Bear: I would say that in the most simplistic & broadest sense, being terrorists, Gaians are irrational at the root
' Wrote:@ Hone: I agree on the point that gaians wouldn't buy tech from the major corps, but that's why I mentioned getting the tech from the zoners at the beginning of the thread. There are multiple examples over the years inrp of casually close ties between the TAZ & NLH...& while RL time and circumstance has lessened those ties, I see no reason why that casual relationship can't be revisited & renew a reciprocal relationship between the Gaians & Zoners through the Discordians. I'll talk to Doc this week & see what he thinks & what can be done, because I don't believe synth foods can have a complete stranglehold on biodomes any more than I think Ford or Chevy can have a complete stranglehold on the wheel.
I am curious though why you would think the gaians would be such bunglers. if there's something written somewhere in game that leads you to believe that, please point me to it & I'll make more of an effort to lobby things like that out.
The thing is, the zoners got those domes from synth foods, they cant supply them to the gaians themselves, and as Jynx said:
' Wrote:@OP:
gaians building biodomes: - sure why not, its just a large dome filled with dirt and air to grow stuff
what we might need to differentiate is that a biodome made by synthfood and sold to zoners for example is not your "garden like" soil. it is a highly industrialized dome for maximized harvest. - its not your nostalgic rows of corn, tomatoes and beans. - its probably as similar to a garden, as a frozen sleeping facility is similar to a kids dormitory in a classic english boarding school.
so sure, gaians can do "nature in domes" - and they d probably try to. such facilities are not providing much food, air or anything ... but act as recreation areas for example
i doubt they d employ high tech nanotech to maximize their harvest though - that doesn t sound right.
in terms of gameplay - it doesn t quite matter - they can of course build a PoB with biodomes and RP them to be gardens.
I basically agree with that.
As for the Bungling, its not so much that they are ALL retards, as that they are a small group, with not much money, no experience, and without the right equipment. So it makes sense that especially their first effort would be a difficult one.
' Wrote:@Jinx , I think the Gaians (who consist largely of scientists from Cambridge) can come with something better then that:P
The Gaians have their routes in science, and are backed by some scientists, but they are certainly not all super space scientists flying around being cool nerds. Most of them are just guys, and it details in lore how they are sliding steadily further into being just common pirate scum.
@Tfin, I think you are confusing FL gaians with Asimov gaians
User was banned for: Griefing others
Time left: (Permanent)
' Wrote:The thing is, the zoners got those domes from synth foods, they cant supply them to the gaians themselves,
As I was attempting to say above, I see no logical reason why Synth Foods would have a stranglehold on biodome tech any more than a car company would have a stranglehold on the wheel...therefore, synth foods doesn't even enter into the equation in the least as far as the Gaians are concerned. inrpl...in tandem with gaian scientific know-how, it's perfectly kosher to (reciprocally) lift the tech from factions willing to work with with us.
Tangent: To be clear...Granted, I hold no illusions that my overall vision of Gaian evolution in game far surpasses what the masses are still up to now ready to accept, but what works in my favor is that I'm patient to a fault. To be perfectly blunt, up to the present, I've always hoped someone with more freetime would share a smidgeon of my neurotic love of the faction & help progress the gaians past my piecemeal cheerleading over the years, but the fact of the matter is, I'm the best gaian godfather Disco has ever had & unless/until someone replaces me in that respect, I'm gonna pitch & work towards making the Gaians a deeper & more interesting faction in the limited time I have to devote to 'em in the hope to draw more players to an otherwise throwaway faction.
Quote:As for the Bungling, its not so much that they are ALL retards, as that they are a small group, with not much money, no experience, and without the right equipment. So it makes sense that especially their first effort would be a difficult one.
The flaw with that logic is the misconception that gaians wouldn't have always possessed the knowledge to efficiently manufacture their own domes from the very beginning & get the materials from allies & neuts. As I also mentioned earlier, I'm aware of geeky blowback at retconning attempts, & therefore willing to adapt to it in order to somewhat fit a popularly shallow mold, it's still not unreasonable to flat-out expect people to evolve their thinking alongside an (albeit slowly) evolving faction.
Quote:The Gaians have their routes in science, and are backed by some scientists, but they are certainly not all super space scientists flying around being cool nerds. Most of them are just guys, and it details in lore how they are sliding steadily further into being just common pirate scum.
I could detail the logical progression of scientists into terrorists over the years, but incase you're unaware, the days of Gaians being common pirate scum are all but over. we have officially expanded past that already.
Quote:@Tfin, I think you are confusing FL gaians with Asimov gaians
I don't intend this as combative as it will sound, but please, by all means, do tell
' Wrote:As I was attempting to say above, I see no logical reason why Synth Foods would have a stranglehold on biodome tech any more than a car company would have a stranglehold on the wheel...therefore, synth foods doesn't even enter into the equation in the least as far as the Gaians are concerned. inrpl...in tandem with gaian scientific know-how, it's perfectly kosher to (reciprocally) lift the tech from factions willing to work with with us.
Thats something neither of us can deduce logically. They could have a monoploy, like Agiera did on JGs before Gallia, or they could not, like BMM doesnt on mining. It something that can only be confirmed one way or the other by ingame lore, or if none exists, modders, or if they cant be bothered, player agreements. I guess if Synth had an official faction, they'd need to be involved, even if only OORP.
' Wrote:The flaw with that logic is the misconception that gaians wouldn't have always possessed the knowledge to efficiently manufacture their own domes from the very beginning & get the materials from allies & neuts. As I also mentioned earlier, I'm aware of geeky blowback at retconning attempts, & therefore willing to adapt to it in order to somewhat fit a popularly shallow mold, it's still not unreasonable to flat-out expect people to evolve their thinking alongside an (albeit slowly) evolving faction.
I'm not sure i understand, are you saying you want to retcon Gaians, to make them always have had the ability to build domes?
' Wrote:I could detail the logical progression of scientists into terrorists over the years, but incase you're unaware, the days of Gaians being common pirate scum are all but over. we have officially expanded past that already.
I don't intend this as combative as it will sound, but please, by all means, do tell
I am unaware, are we talking actual dev development away from the canon lore that gaians were degrading to common pirates? Or is this something your faction is trying to RP?
And as for the asimov thing; not at all, Asimov wrote a series of books called the foundation series, in it was planet Gaia. The inhabitants resembled what Fin was talking about. Unlike the Gaians of FL.
User was banned for: Griefing others
Time left: (Permanent)
i like this idea: im pretty sure the Gaians were scientists until they became radical bioterrorists. they might not have the wherewithal to construct the domes from scratch, but they do have the nous to maintain them.
one must not forget one rather important thing about the gaians.
the ex- CRI are the tip of the iceberg by "today". the majority of the gaians are bretonian lowlifes similar to the liberty rogues ( semi organized ). - these "thugs" are pirates that work for their own benefit alone. they won t even care too much for gaia or the original cause if it stands in a way for their personal profit.
as time progresses - the balance within the faction tips towards these new generic pirates - and knowledge gets lost. - one can also assume that after decades - many of the original CRI members have maybe left the cause, died or got caught. - they were replaced by people who might have the original intention, but not the original knowledge anymore - as i am not sure if the gaians have facilities or are actually into teaching their successors much.
players do of course often RP the original gaians with their roots in the CRI - its still a matter to consider that its been many many years past the original event - and there is little indication that the current CRI or other intellectuals defect to the gaians cause ... bringing knowledge with them.
edit: that doesn t mean that gaians have no interest or skill to build them ( or steal them or whatever ). but it means it should not be taken for granted that they are able to do it.
its a bit like the lane hackers. - the original hackers might have been able to do wonders in terms of hacking into the ageira network - but decades later, new technologies and/or loss of knowledge can change a faction fundamentally.
I haven't read all the pages so I humbly ask for forgiveness if my points have been discussed before.
1) Resources. Biodomes are rather complex structures and keeping them running takes manpower and money. If I remember correctly, gaians have limited resources.
2) Technical difficulty. Biodomes are built in open space, not in asteroid belts, gas clouds or other places where the sun (or dwarf) light doesn't reach. All the gaian bases are in places like the ones mentioned.
3) Please change your sigs and avy.:P
' Wrote:Thats something neither of us can deduce logically. They could have a monoploy, like Agiera did on JGs before Gallia, or they could not, like BMM doesnt on mining. It something that can only be confirmed one way or the other by ingame lore, or if none exists, modders, or if they cant be bothered, player agreements. I guess if Synth had an official faction, they'd need to be involved, even if only OORP.
On the contrary, unless I missed it & you can show me where it states they have a monopoly on such a simplistic tech, I'm telling you that they don't. All the gaians really need are the basic materials to manufacture their own & the materials would not be difficult to get in game.
Quote:I'm not sure i understand, are you saying you want to retcon Gaians, to make them always have had the ability to build domes?
On the whole, I'm saying that retconning the Gaians is flat-out unnessesary. Since they come from a scientific background, building Gaian domes would have always been exceedingly easy for them & that ability should be taken as a given. I was simply trying to state as diplomatically as possible that I'm aware lorewhores would probably give themselves an anneurism over it since it's not specifically stated in the mod & I'm willing to take that into consideration in an attempt to meet that type of mindset halfway...for example, maintaining the traditional pov that the faction as a whole simply couldn't afford them & that over time their institutional memory has degraded a fair bit. Now however, that is not the case. They had the creds & resources to colonize Faroe, therefore, they have the creds & resourses to add domes.
Quote:I am unaware, are we talking actual dev development away from the canon lore that gaians were degrading to common pirates? Or is this something your faction is trying to RP?
In game:
Quote:And as for the asimov thing; not at all, Asimov wrote a series of books called the foundation series, in it was planet Gaia. The inhabitants resembled what Fin was talking about. Unlike the Gaians of FL.
I'm aware of the series as I read them in the 80's That's how I first learned about the concept of Gaians