The past, present and future of Zoners as an NPC faction

[Reptile]

And while you're at it, wave a big retcon wand and remove every vessel larger than a gunboat from the unlawfuls.

I'm sure that would go over real well.

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This will normal RP server then.But who cares?
Devs can add caps in game,but only not remove them from game...
Rheinland with their big fleet by RP and MOX,in their systems full of resources,fuel,water,metal and others,have no enough fuel for their needs....but corsairs - have! Corsairs nothing producing,but have ships of all spectre.
Where they get the last technology?
Where they get metal for their ships?
Where they get a fuel for their big ships?
Where they get a lot of water\oxy\food for their crew of their fleet?
How they can supply their big fleet fleet from so far systems of houses,which producing this all?
And this questions is to zoners too...
Money = human resources\real resources\technology rehouses.
If you want something to take - you must something to give.
Why houses so rich and powerfull? Because they producing and discovering something new.
What producing zoners?
What producing pirates?
If we will take Corsairs = they selling artifacts...how many you you must sell artifacts to buy food\water\oxy,then fuel for their trading tranports,then money for transports pilots for their job,then repair parts,then money for resoursces for building BSs,then resouces for scientific group of people which is developing their ships\guns and others...
then 1 artifact must cost ~ 20 000 for units to converts this all to real resources for Crete.
How many Cors must kill GMG transports to supply their fleet? How many eat every BS fuel? How many they have fuel from traders...
Nobody cares about it...and this is called BALANCE.
If LWB ,Red Hessians, Unioners, Bundshu will have their own capital ships,who will play for Rheinland then??? If they can burn in their BSs all what they want....
Doesnt matter that this factions cannot with their resources even survive in space - they will build their own BSs,cruisers, GBs, bombers,fighters...

Look at real world,to understand how realy need things,work,people.resources to build simple tank or aircraft...
Zoners in single player using simple civilian ships..because they have no resources(human,metal and technology) to build simple fighter...but now they are more powerful than house.
This mod became a non-sence with this thing to give every poor faction a capital ship,but not move it to real house diplomacy.

Zoners = Hippie which trying to live far away from militarized people and other laws and rules of house space...and wait,they have BATTLESHIPS,CRUISERS? omg for what? HOW?
How such poor group of people in space station CAN BUILD REAL HEAVY WAR UNITS?
This is kinda hippie on tanks.
In reality,problems can be fixed very simple...
What interest to use house capital ship,when i can use pirate battleship?With pirate BS i can burn weak trader,burn simple freelancer and etc.

My manifest:(but who cares?)
Zoners = civilian ships snubs(for escort),medium cargohold transports,maybe some GBs for escorts sometimes. more size ships they not NEED and CANNOT to use. Even freeport type ships cannot have more than GB defense turels,not cruiser, and NOT EVEN battleships (OMG). This is flying station dudes,not warship...
Pirates = snubs
Cors = snubs,medium tranports (because they docking only on junkers bases,and junkers base by vanilla cannot handle heavy transports with 5000 hold),GB and maybe some light cruisers(aka tresher BH).
Outcasts = snubs, meduim tranports,they not need 5000 tranports for smuggling,and 5000 tranports cannot fly on enemy territory undetectable,GBs,and some light cruisers aka tresher.
Red hessians = snubs and some GBs,this faction even have no their oxy\water\fuel\food for surviving,do they need to build such type of ships????For faction without resources better to build 10 bombers,than 1 cruiser.
1 bomber = 20 mil, 10 bombers = 200 mil and 40 pilots.
1 cruiser = 200 mil, and 50 pilots (for example)
and what more powerful then 10 bombers or 1 cruiser???
10 bombers will not eat so many fuel,as it will do cruiser....
BHG - snubs and GBs(their own or civialian) only for escorts.
if you want real game RP,not in theory.. balance game by real resources and hi-tech level of factions,what they can,and what they not.
Giving battleship to Zoner,Corsairs,Xenos(why not?),Gaians, Liberty rouges = lolw00t server...Nobody will join in escorts,when he will find on his way 20 pirates battleships which will him burn.Nobody will join House factions,because be target for pirate raid every day against BS = not interesting.
Rheinland BS vs Hessian BS, LWB BS, Unioner BS, Cors BS and etc. I will better join pirates lol.

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i can imagine faces of dev of original freelancer,when they will see:
zoners(hippe) with BSs
Cors which have no fuel,water,food,oxy = flying caps
Red hessians,faction which have no resources even for normal surviving(they miners without work which running in space to do diversions against Daumann and Kruger(for taking their resources and selling them to junkers > and junkers will give them some food\water\girls and beer (lol)),and they building cruisers,battleships,gunboats...full spectre of house,heavy capital ships and have no fuel,repair parts,technology base for it...


THIS IS WILL BE


OMG,WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?


P.S. but again...who cares? we can add new ship,but not remove it from game...
we can that "OMG, I have model of civilian battleship - LETS ADD IT TO MOD!!!111"...and we will do this,who cares that this is will be battleship with
300 pirates inside..lol

sorry for bad English.

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Wrote:
~Please leave this community, please. You'd be doing everyone a favour.
~Nikita. Please. Go play sims.
~Nikita, stop acting like that... you are just embarrassing yourself.
~Your way to win may be within rules, but you still break Rule 0.0 be excellent to eachother.
~but please just keep it to the Russian Discord chats and off the forums. We're tired of reading it.
then you will see 70 players online in this way. -me
2012©
RNC|MND-Gepard

[Omicron]

Luna, go play disco and check out these ships first.
Aquilion and Corvo are amongst best pvp tools on the sever right now.

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[Himura Suzume]

And while you're at it, wave a big retcon wand and remove every vessel larger than a gunboat from the unlawfuls.

I'm sure that would go over real well.

-Snip-

I agree with Reptile to some degree. But I also understand it can't be done.
I'd love to see any capitals only be playable during special events or only flyable after a SRP.

This is partly because I think capitals have very little to do in a space shooter. They feel more like something from a tower defense game. But that is purely my opinion, I can understand if some people want the big stuff.

What is not purely opinion, but indeed fact, is that the snub to cap ratio on Disco is way too low to make any sense lore-wise. I can't imagine that any fleet would have a ship worth hundreds of millions manned by hundreds of crew-members fly around without support, being an easy target for less than a handful of bombers.

The fact that the Torpedos have been as effective as they have shows this. They should be swarmed by fighters when they try to do their stuff.

I also think that way too many factions have access to caps. This includes the Zoners, so I'm not hijacking the thread completely here. I see no reason for a neutral entity to have a capital ship line.

I see no real reason for Corsairs or Outcasts to have a capital ship line, they simply wouldn't have the resources to sustain a real war front with a house anyway (as houses should, imho, be the only ones with caps).

Same goes for BHG. No need for capitals if they never have to hunt capitals, it's just a huge investment that really isn't worth it's weight in bombers and fighters.

Of course I know that whether or not my opinion represents a majority or minority on the server, heavily restricting caps now would make quite a few players leave. And that is probably too big a risk to take, as it could in fact drop the playerbase to below "sustainable" levels.

TLDR;
Snub to Cap ratio too low.
Too many factions have access to Caps.
Difficult to do anything about it without pissing a lot of players off.

I'm sorry, I think I did hijack a bit after all.
OP, if you want me to remove this, let me know.

[NonSequitor]

Just to be clear, my earlier comment about the retcon wand was made in a sarcastic tone. We all know what would happen to this server if caps were restricted to lawful houses and/or player factions.

Anyhoo, caps aren't really a problem, Zoner caps or otherwise. Bombers kill the living daylights out of caps, as it should be. I still think that bombers should be slightly less maneuverable, but that's another debate.

Capships are one the reasons this server has been so popular and I think should be acknowlegded. If there were no caps (or if access to them was strictly limited) there would be less traders grinding for ships, cap armor, jump drives, etc. Less activity.

Do capship numbers stretch creduility? It's a subjective question. Personally, I run into VHFs, gunboats and transports most of the time. If you're spending most of your time in Liberty, you're going see more caps. Sometimes they're used well, sometimes not.

Summa summarum: It's a game, it doesn't always have to make complete sense. Have fun.

[Madvillain]

Fearless/corvo (one a 9 gun destroyer consistently wrecked by any other cruiser, the other having no primarys firing upward and even worse offense) Aquilion (carrier, low firepower and armor, only + its cargo)

*spews out his coffee*

No !
No!
No!
Noooooo!
JUST NO!

Especially the Conference is a $#^%$#% to fight against and should be nerfed!
(to hell and preferably not back)
I don't say this because I see so many Zoners taking advantage of it , but it's being misused by a variety of figures who seriously just use it as the overpowered PVP tool it became. (thank you new tech rules)
Sorry for the off topic.

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Baila Morena | Toilet Trouble | Elder Presidente[TBH] | The Titan Combat Manual | Confession
♰ Join the Corsair Brotherhood ♰

[Pavel]

Zoners aren't Zoners anymore, they're no longer some squatters inhabitating abandoned corporate outposts in the independent worlds, they indeed look like mini-House, and this is awful, as it's totally against their original lore.

Zoners shouldn't have capital ships and big transports at all, same applies to unlawfuls, even Hispanic "semi-houses", and few other factions.

[Sanguines]

Zoners aren't Zoners anymore, they're no longer some squatters inhabitating abandoned corporate outposts in the independent worlds, they indeed look like mini-House, and this is awful, as it's totally against their original lore.

Zoners shouldn't have capital ships and big transports at all, same applies to unlawfuls, even Hispanic "semi-houses", and few other factions.

This isnt vanilla. This is discovery. Also they looked like a house in vanilla too then? :o

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Wiki: http://discoverygc.com/wiki/User:SonyaSilverfall (My chars, etc)

[Gypsie]

remove the caps, remove the problem. there's no way those anarchist farmers were building those things anyway. let them buy/steal warships from the houses, and deal with technerf, like everybody else.

zonerzonerzoner

Have you died to many Corvos/Aquilons/Conferences lately? Didn't think so. I really don't see where this 'zoners should not get caps' thing comes from. It just harms the community.

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Malaclypse Freeport

[nOmnomnOm]

I pirated a Zoner once... and it actually went well!
No they aren't immune. They are only neutral to most people.

What I don't get is how do they have such awesome weaponry and not have an enemy???? Well I guess the Sairs are kinda an enemy ish from time to time.

I think of them more like the big-buck business people in Sirus. Not so much as a house. That would be awkward.

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[Markus_Janus]

I don't see too many problems with Zoners having caps.
As long as everybody else who would never have a chance has them, why not Zoners.
It is afterall a game, and people want to have fun, for some that means caps.

My point is that the Zoners are not what they were.
They are not small groups of family/friends.
They are large corporations and military formations.
As such, I don't think Zoners can complain too much if they start to get treated as such.

I am not saying that everybody should just jump on the Zoners, please no, we have seen that before.
But it is fair that others start to treat Zoners as responsible for actions of other Zoners and people with their tech.
The Zoners have control of their tech as displayed by them selling to some and not others, that shows responsibility.
They have fleets, that shows regimented discipline.
This is what the players have evolved the Zoners into while trying to work with what has been handed to them by the devs.
But hey, every faction has that problem.

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Samura Omotai Zaibatsu.