Right, now we are going somewhere, although I am going to ignore your first paragraph, as it is very silly, and you know it. I'll flesh out why I wrote what I wrote too.
The implementation of current PoB's leaves a lot to be desired for some, while they are just fine for others. What guarantee do I have that introducing more POB, albeit in a different form, won't suffer from the same - in my view - mistakes the current POB's suffer from?
As I stated earlier, there is strong disagreement on the subject, how do we know that your new PoB idea won't be absolutely perfect for some, whilst it will suck for others? How do we know that we won't end up in the exact same discussions with groups that either don't or simply refuse to understand each other?
Maybe, just maybe, the current POB's would be good trial subjects? Maybe a balance could be achieved with current POB's to show those that are somewhat negative towards POB's that they aren't all that bad? To show that pro-POB people also have other people's views and interests in mind?
In the end, it is about trust. Personally, I don't trust your vision of an ideal POB, and that's why I would hate to see it in the mod at this point. Now if current POB's were somehow fixed, it would be easier to put faith and trust in ideas surrounding POB's. The two are very much related, it will be the same Devs that brought us our super awesome current POB's that will deliver the new ones.
If current POB's are working as intended, I am quite worried about introducing more things in the realm of POB's, and I don't think that worry is unreasonable.
EDIT: In case you didn't know already, I think the only thing that should be killing players is other players. I'd prefer it if NPC's had no guns, if NPC bases had no guns and POB's had no guns.
May I interject here? Player owned Battleship bases are not one of the Official faction perks. By all means, discuss their merits if you wish, just didn't want anyone to think this was an actual thing in the foreseeable future.
From my point of view (GRN| lead, duh), the best perk that I could get handed would be ZoI-related, preferably one that's as "fuzzy" as possible.
I'm not saying I want to go and frog all over Sirius, but having the ability to fly occasional considered, RP-justified operations slightly beyond (or well beyond) our 'strict' ZoI would, at times, be majorly helpful.
I can't really think of any other perks that would interest me overly much - at least off the top of my head.
(01-19-2015, 07:51 PM)Mímir Wrote: The implementation of current PoB's leaves a lot to be desired for some, while they are just fine for others. What guarantee do I have that introducing more POB, albeit in a different form, won't suffer from the same - in my view - mistakes the current POB's suffer from?
We don't have any guarantee yet, neither do you, nor do I, unless some green appears about them in a certain place of the forum. I did not say I want PoBattleships at all costs, I said I would like to see them balanced differently than PoBases, moreover I also said in which way I imagine said different way of balance. (Gosh, this starts to feel like I'm repeating myself over and over...)
(01-19-2015, 07:51 PM)Mímir Wrote: As I stated earlier, there is strong disagreement on the subject, how do we know that your new PoB idea won't be absolutely perfect for some, whilst it will suck for others? How do we know that we won't end up in the exact same discussions with groups that either don't or simply refuse to understand each other?
The "wonderful" feature of a heterogenous community like ours is that you can't please anybody, thus we both know the answer for these questions: there will be people who prefer the "easier to deploy, easier to destroy" concept over the current PoB balance, and then there will be those who would like it less than what we have now. I'm not that delusional to think my concept is perfect, but I aim to put the emphasis on something else with this kind of balance, and that is to make this new feature require less effort going waste upon their loss, and less effort requiring the removal of a malicious one, a state somewhat closer to the mechanics we have for ships. Less maintenance cost, less stuff lost, less effort to remove, maybe we could call it a middle way between player ship costs and PoB costs.
(01-19-2015, 07:51 PM)Mímir Wrote: Maybe, just maybe, the current POB's would be good trial subjects? Maybe a balance could be achieved with current POB's to show those that are somewhat negative towards POB's that they aren't all that bad? To show that pro-POB people also have other people's views and interests in mind?
All the good and bad features of a PoB has been shown already, it is past of it's trial and the groups of those who like them and of those who don't have already been made. And then what would be the difference between introducing new balance with PoBases and introducing new balance with PoBattleships?
(01-19-2015, 07:51 PM)Mímir Wrote: In the end, it is about trust. Personally, I don't trust your vision of an ideal POB, and that's why I would hate to see it in the mod at this point. Now if current POB's were somehow fixed, it would be easier to put faith and trust in ideas surrounding POB's. The two are very much related, it will be the same Devs that brought us our super awesome current POB's that will deliver the new ones.
I don't think trust has a heavier impact on this than, let's say, experience. You haven't experienced what I'm talking about yet. I haven't either, but I'm still curious about the possible results. We both, however, experienced the current system, gathered different experienced in the process and formed our own different opinions about PoBs, yet that still not gives a reason to any of us to judge what's not even implemented yet. It would simply be premature, we have no basis to judge it on it's own, or compare to PoBase balance, and especially shouldn't judge the proposed PoBattleship balance concept on what we have now. After all, you wouldn't judge an apple by the appearance of an orange, would you?
(01-19-2015, 07:51 PM)Mímir Wrote: If current POB's are working as intended, I am quite worried about introducing more things in the realm of POB's, and I don't think that worry is unreasonable.
Current, current, current... don't you see that from the two of us, only you keep talking about the current system? I do think your worry is unreasonable, because you seem to imply that anything related to PoBs is bad and going to be the same bad. Actually, it wouldn't be unreasonable shouldn't I have specified earlier that my concept is different. But I did.
(01-19-2015, 07:51 PM)Mímir Wrote: EDIT: In case you didn't know already, I think the only thing that should be killing players is other players. I'd prefer it if NPC's had no guns, if NPC bases had no guns and POB's had no guns.
That would be quite a dull game. And silly with all the OC loldreads in Manhattan orbit. Yea, bases with no guns or NPC patrols around them would mean kinda that.
@Omi:
How about a mutual "Can hunt [arch nemesis] anywhere in Sirius and Gallia" on Council and GRN IDs?