Engines and Thrusters

[Karmotrine Dream]

If you want to roleplay how you bought some engine nobody's stopping you, that's not what this announcement is about. It's just about how they are treated in terms of applying rules. Bottom line is that swappable engines were set as cosmetic and before they can be made as inRP equipment (as say weapons are) there needs to have enough variety of available choices. For example let's say you're flying faction A ship and there's default engine that comes with the ship (first-party), but there would be like 8-9 engines on the market that aren't specific or exclusive to another faction (third-party). Something like manufacturers from Borderlands, where each has distinctive visual aesthetic and not just be recolors of existing ones. At least that's how I'd like to see it. May be we will and if anyone wants to help they're free to give a try at making engine effects.

Leaving aside the bit about RP consequences - I am not knowledgeable enough about these matters to opine on them - it seems to me this solution would satisfy both those who wish for proprietary engine tech for Immersion/RP/etc. and those who simply desire a degree of visual customisation for their otherwise not very customisable crafts.

Of course, making these new free-use engines gfx would not be quick (and I would be content simply with recolours of some the available faction ones; the effect work on some of them is fantastic, after all, and if contrails of a certain colour lend a distinctive identity to a faction's ships, that would preserve it).

To be honest, and with no offence meant, the outrage about what is a minor cosmetic detail feels somewhat excessive to me. Surely there are other and more impactful ways to portray a faction than regulating personal aesthetic choices?

[Treewyrm]

I believe satisfactory solution does exist. Like said it's to have a market of third-party engine manufacturers that is not exclusive to any faction. Then if you'd want alternative engine effect for your ship you'd buy one of those, if you'd want engine that belongs to another faction then probably would have to jump through a few hoops to get it inRP, and if you're content with first-party engine that came with the ship then you just continue to use it. May be have a few rare ones too.

[St.Denis]

Actually, even if I make 9 million engines, it's still the admins control in the end. Always has been.

It will bother me severely that even if I make a load of generic open-cell stuff that the Staff may not actually guarantee to change their minds.

As you are quite aware, the Admins didn't 'just' decide to do this. I came to the Devs and asked for a definitive answer on this, because we had received 2 Player's Requests to clarify this contentious issue.

You are in that Chat and you can see the conversation that took place and the decision.

So in short state that they are cosmetic at the moment until further notice and that it may change in the future.

It was decided that due to there not being much of an option, for coloured engines/thrusters at the moment, to make them be counted as purely cosmetic.

The Devs, sometime in the future, may decided to make a whole plethora of 'pretty' coloured engines/thrusters and then maybe Faction only engines/thrusters will become a reality.

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Life is full of disappointments, it is how we handle them that helps to define us, as a person

[Kauket]

Actually, even if I make 9 million engines, it's still the admins control in the end. Always has been.

It will bother me severely that even if I make a load of generic open-cell stuff that the Staff may not actually guarantee to change their minds.

As you are quite aware, the Admins didn't 'just' decide to do this. I came to the Devs and asked for a definitive answer on this, because we had received 2 Player's Requests to clarify this contentious issue.

You are in that Chat and you can see the conversation that took place and the decision.

So in short state that they are cosmetic at the moment until further notice and that it may change in the future.

It was decided that due to there not being much of an option, for coloured engines/thrusters at the moment, to make them be counted as purely cosmetic.

The Devs, sometime in the future, may decided to make a whole plethora of 'pretty' coloured engines/thrusters and then maybe Faction only engines/thrusters will become a reality.

I'm in the staff chat. But I do not have staff role. I do not see any chat I have access to that had the discussion. I see a votr channel that has been empty for months.

Either way. I don't like making false guarantees to people. It would be nice to consider the feeling of achievement to players.

The last time I had a player approach to want gear, I told him to go prove himself so I gave him a little mission. But he declined and opted to want to shoot and be upset. Oh well.

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[Czechmate]

Its not really up to staff to decide what is inRP and what is oorp.
People can honestly RP whatever they want as long as it is within the scope of the rules.
I can RP owning Planet New Tokyo and there is nothing to actually stop me from doing so. People will call me a lolwut and its a pretty stupid things to do, but not against the rules.

Whether something is canon or not is something else entirely.
Just let people RP their engines. I will certainly keep doing so. I have a piracy line on my ID that lets me demand credits. There is no rule telling me in what situations to use that.

You can RP about the engines you mount all you like, but can't enforce RP consequences against anyone else because of theirs.

We had a situation where nomads demanded a cargo drop. Their ID doesn't have the lines in. But it does have a kill line. Admin consensus was that Nomads demanding cargo is not sanctionable as the alternative is a worse thing - death.

So if someone has a kill line - they absolutely can kill you and quote engines they can kill you anyways with generic lines and no reason.
If they have a pirate line - they absolutely can fine you and quote engines, they can pirate you anyways with generic lines and no reason.

What people can't do anymore is use FR4 or laws to punish you because of engines if they aren't using other lines.


EDIT: this is my assumption, admins can clarify, but the Nomad kinda similar precedent makes me assume this is the case.

My assumption is that half of disco has the logical apparatus and reading comprehension of a domestic hamster injected with a litre of third grade cognac, but in my case it seems the assumption is right.

The post in admin green says:

For the foreseeable future Engines and Thrusters are to be treated as purely cosmetic ie. ooRP.

This does not mean "engines exist iRP but you cannot enforce roleplay consequences," because if it meant that, it would be written like that. It literally means they don't exist. They are invisible for your character in the same way that a ship flying a Recruit ID is. There's ***** nothing there, and a character that mentions it iRP is schizophrenic or metagaming.

Now whether the decision is reasonable or not is beside the point, there is still time to change it. I think it would be good to keep engines iRP, but that's not what the post says.

This is pretty hilarious - it feels like talking to myself

Hello Lemon alt!

I mean what it means is you can't gain engagement lines due to engines and thrusters - rest won't get sanctioned. Could they reword it? Yes as that's the intent. Is it vital? No as treewyrm clarified that and St.Dennis confirmed it

[Czechmate]

Actually, even if I make 9 million engines, it's still the admins control in the end. Always has been.

It will bother me severely that even if I make a load of generic open-cell stuff that the Staff may not actually guarantee to change their minds.

As you are quite aware, the Admins didn't 'just' decide to do this. I came to the Devs and asked for a definitive answer on this, because we had received 2 Player's Requests to clarify this contentious issue.

You are in that Chat and you can see the conversation that took place and the decision.

So in short state that they are cosmetic at the moment until further notice and that it may change in the future.

It was decided that due to there not being much of an option, for coloured engines/thrusters at the moment, to make them be counted as purely cosmetic.

The Devs, sometime in the future, may decided to make a whole plethora of 'pretty' coloured engines/thrusters and then maybe Faction only engines/thrusters will become a reality.

I'm in the staff chat. But I do not have staff role. I do not see any chat I have access to that had the discussion. I see a votr channel that has been empty for months.

Either way. I don't like making false guarantees to people. It would be nice to consider the feeling of achievement to players.

The last time I had a player approach to want gear, I told him to go prove himself so I gave him a little mission. But he declined and opted to want to shoot and be upset. Oh well.

It is about your Auxo engines you made afterall - you made them for your faction you want to own them in rp and feel the achievement - correct? This will discourage people from devving for their own factions, this drawback is clear.

[Xenon]

Its not really up to staff to decide what is inRP and what is oorp.
People can honestly RP whatever they want as long as it is within the scope of the rules.
I can RP owning Planet New Tokyo and there is nothing to actually stop me from doing so. People will call me a lolwut and its a pretty stupid things to do, but not against the rules.

Whether something is canon or not is something else entirely.
Just let people RP their engines. I will certainly keep doing so. I have a piracy line on my ID that lets me demand credits. There is no rule telling me in what situations to use that.

Makes good sense
RP whatever you want within the scope of the rules
RP a request to a certain faction for using their engine in your ship , Fun

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[Corile]

I mean what it means is you can't gain engagement lines due to engines and thrusters

it doesnt

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[Kauket]

Actually, even if I make 9 million engines, it's still the admins control in the end. Always has been.

It will bother me severely that even if I make a load of generic open-cell stuff that the Staff may not actually guarantee to change their minds.

As you are quite aware, the Admins didn't 'just' decide to do this. I came to the Devs and asked for a definitive answer on this, because we had received 2 Player's Requests to clarify this contentious issue.

You are in that Chat and you can see the conversation that took place and the decision.

So in short state that they are cosmetic at the moment until further notice and that it may change in the future.

It was decided that due to there not being much of an option, for coloured engines/thrusters at the moment, to make them be counted as purely cosmetic.

The Devs, sometime in the future, may decided to make a whole plethora of 'pretty' coloured engines/thrusters and then maybe Faction only engines/thrusters will become a reality.

I'm in the staff chat. But I do not have staff role. I do not see any chat I have access to that had the discussion. I see a votr channel that has been empty for months.

Either way. I don't like making false guarantees to people. It would be nice to consider the feeling of achievement to players.

The last time I had a player approach to want gear, I told him to go prove himself so I gave him a little mission. But he declined and opted to want to shoot and be upset. Oh well.

It is about your Auxo engines you made afterall - you made them for your faction you want to own them in rp and feel the achievement - correct? This will discourage people from devving for their own factions, this drawback is clear.

You are entirely aware that I have done loads of other effects. Red hessians is my pet peeve with lawfuls using



Best we can do for now is make stuff and hope this change gets reverted. We should have IDs as oorp. Not engines

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[pillow]

In my ideal world faction visuals would be locked to faction tech, with some open use generic stuff available for more options. I can understand people wanting to use other faction engines because there just isn't enough variety there, and gameplay isn't affected. Can't say the same about guns. If we had a sufficiently varied pool of engines (and thrusters?) for factions that don't have any and also a bunch of generics for more visual and color variety I would one hundred percent support making engines (and thrusters?) faction specific. Bonus points if we remove the random ass techshare that polluted the game over the years due to friends talking on Skype and Discord about sharing their stuff. I still lose sleep over stuff like Blood Dragon Katanas using Kalashnikovs. Wtf.