Jump trading is also a direct counter to all those lolpirates, demanding full cargo from the ore ships. Well, only a partial counter, because pirating jumpconvoys is not harder from doing the same to normal ones. Easier even, when you know where exactly your prey is.
Seriously, you expect people to want "RP'ing" on how exactly they're going to waste last 45 minutes of their life (if done close to selling point, ore trade.) - by being blown up and losing all cargo or just by losing all cargo?
I think, the most Q_Q here comes from one thing: Not getting your blue.
Srsly. Power silent trading is same to Jumptrading. Both focused at monymaking. But if you are a pirate, and you have met such silent trader, you would have at least a blue msg, to satisfy your ego.
(07-06-2014, 09:00 PM)RedEclipse Wrote: Again these talks, fix what shouldn't be fixed? Jumptrade are fine as it is now. Getting all things + a real teamwork = income.
For one party. As I have said before, this is an RP server and activity should be mutual for more than one party of players. All jump trading encourages is to make the rich richer, for themselves and no one else, without needing to interact with any other players and you can make as much money as you want within your own special bubble.
(07-06-2014, 09:00 PM)RedEclipse Wrote: Stopping jumptraders is rather easy and even easier if they are using barge. So instead of "nerf this nerf that", log ship and try to stop them, if its hurts you.
The Barge just F1's out of system.straght away. Sometimes the Jumship just takes everyone with them so that they can get out as quickly as possible.
(07-06-2014, 10:26 PM)Katherine Wrote:
jumptrading convoys are far more easier to pirate
WHY?
targets-[5ks or barge] with no offense defense possibility but the jumper who can be pop-ed by 2-3 bombersNot in all scenarios. The one you've mentioned is very rare because, as I have said, they'll either run straight away or will start logging all kinds of ooRP ships to crap on your day. Which is something I will mention later as I gave the suggestions in a thread a go, and it gave me one of the worst piracy experiences I have ever had, maybe one of, if not the worst disco experience I've had.
(07-06-2014, 10:26 PM)Katherine Wrote: location-[fixed]you don't have to look through all those systems just to barely find out 1-3 traders per hour or so .. you just need to camp the buy point/mining field and pop the fuel or atleast speak up your intentions of doing so
??? How am I meant to know their exact jump coordinates? They have to change them periodically too.
(07-06-2014, 10:26 PM)Katherine Wrote: ; or go at the sell point and just pop em up one by one if they don't pay you up and call JM to pick up the cargo and sell it for yo' .. much profit
A ship can only drop 3K cargo max. That's not really rewarding if you're shooting at a cap8 barge.
Piracy in Omicron Alpha is madness. Other systems, such as Omicron Theta (I think it was?) are a hassle to keep a pirate there for such a specific purpose.
(07-06-2014, 10:26 PM)Katherine Wrote: i don't think jumpers are harder to pirate but it's a thing only lazy pirates due ,because of no risks and too much rewards for 'em
Think =/= Know. I hardly ever see people try to pirate Jump traders, because it's not an easy job. I don't understand why there's a whole load of people in this thread claiming jump trader piracy is easy, because unless I see proof of such, they've got their heads in the clouds.
(07-06-2014, 10:26 PM)Katherine Wrote: yes,it might require atleast two players/pirates logged at the same time but jumpers requires atleast 4,so..i'll rather ask for a buff..
I had to bring an entire army to try to calm the wave of never ending Jump trading ooRP QQ army manifested as Outcast caps, Liberty caps, LPI bombers, Freelancer snubs, Junker salvagers, Indie pirates and Gunboats.
(07-06-2014, 10:26 PM)Katherine Wrote:
(07-06-2014, 11:38 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: .. Furthermore, Jump trading is an activity with little to no RP, an activity that is fuelled purely for wanting to make credits.
You just described every single trader...
Jump traders are the worst. And there's no reason why we should put up with such behaviour on an RP server. What kind of standards are we trying to set here?
(07-06-2014, 10:26 PM)Katherine Wrote:
(07-06-2014, 11:38 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: It also prompts silly RP such as trading factions and the like having [faction that can use jumpships] 'friends'.
That is up to you to 'fix' it,let's say..junkers being jump to malta by an OC cap in liberty,well..what are you waiting for? bring your LN chars
others situations have the same solution and outcome
I can try that, but it's easier said than done. Furthermore though, these Jump traders don't think about the inRP implications of doing such. How would a lawful react to seeing Junkers freely working alongside an Outcast cap? Hell, how woudl Rogues and Hackers react to Junkers working with a foreign cap in their space?
(07-06-2014, 10:29 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote:
(07-06-2014, 08:09 PM)Moriarty. Wrote: @ nomnomWhat will you do when they jump off the plane?
And it is dead easy to jump with a barge, been there, done that, albeit with a jumpship. All you need is not to align your barge, and instead align the BS in the way the barge is. Takes not more than 30 minutes to fill a barge with ore, get fuel from nearby and jump to the sell point. All the people speaking in this thread, have you guys tried pirating jump traders? have you tried jump trading?
I have done both, with and without barges, and the end result is safe passage wihtout any interaction whatsoever. Do please try that out before going on against people just because you have a personal grudge on them and want to argue against them whatever thread they put up.
yet again, I stress on this fact. I have experienced jump trading in most of the perspectives, either as the jump trader, or as a pirate, or as a lawful watching them jump trade. And say what, the ones who jump trade (most of them) are jumptraders who just want to make hoards of cash without any form of interaction, to accumulate as much pixel wealth. I get pissed off at the fact that they wont talk with you even if you spot them out jumping, after hours of searching.
We can say the same about traders flying above plane. And if you say just camp a JH/JG, why cant you camp places that is the target location to arrive at for Jumpers? Its easy to figure out. lol
Because, as I said above, how are you supposed to know the exact Jump coordinates? It's a lottery. And if they jump far off, what stops them from just F1ing and coming back later to finish the run when you're gone?
(07-06-2014, 10:29 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: I have also done jumping and pirating Jumpers.
Your point?
It really doesn't sound like you have. At all.
(07-06-2014, 10:29 PM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: Even when you say that they are silent jumpers. Your describing most traders out there.
Jump traders, silent traders, power traders. They're all bad, some worse than others. It doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking at solutions to remedy things, and Jump traders seems like the easiest one to target (though I have also voiced my ideas on how to fix the silent trader and power trader problems on my piracy thread).
(07-06-2014, 10:43 PM)pitockm Wrote: But Transports and 5kers...No no no no.
you will Make the whole thing useless.
That's the point, lol. Jump trading shouldn't exist, it's a mistake.
(07-06-2014, 10:43 PM)pitockm Wrote: if you like to do old fashion piracy....perhaps try find where the people jump off to.
As I have said before, it's not possible for you to find out the exact jump coordinates.
(07-06-2014, 10:43 PM)pitockm Wrote: even in rp. its not that people wont gain access to such thing. ....like Moving large amount of supplies with that technology .
Yeah, give Junkers battleships and cruisers, because we have access to such resources /sarcasm.
Just because people have the resources for such a thing, it doesn't mean it'll have good impacts. For example, I've got access to a lot of sharp things in my house. It doesn't mean I should stab myself with them.
(07-07-2014, 06:02 AM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: I think we can all agree here that the "RP" that is lost is just the average Pirate demanding 2milordai before the trader gets shot up to oblivion....
What about the lawfuls that can interact with the traders? What about the traders that can be met en route to a sellpoint by a friendly convoy? What about the random Freelancers and bounty hunters that can be asked for an escort? What about the official factions that can be interacted with? The list goes on.
(07-07-2014, 06:08 AM)lIceColon Wrote: If you want to catch traders then put some effort into it. If RS can bother to go 40k off plane then why can't you. Nobody said being unlawful was easy, don't expect traders to hand themselves to you on a platter.
Lol, I've tried man. But you know, you won't know anything about piracy, considering this:
(07-03-2014, 08:40 AM)lIceColon Wrote: How familiar are you with piracy?: not at all
(((((((::::::
(07-07-2014, 06:14 AM)lIceColon Wrote: get a cloak, tail their supply ships lol.
Refer to the post above. And they'll either just dock straight away as soon as they see you in the system, or F1.
(07-07-2014, 09:02 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Jump trading is also a direct counter to all those lolpirates, demanding full cargo from the ore ships. Well, only a partial counter, because pirating jumpconvoys is not harder from doing the same to normal ones. Easier even, when you know where exactly your prey is.
Two wrongs don't make a right. And as I have said before, it's not easier, because they either dock or log straight off.
(07-07-2014, 09:02 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Seriously, you expect people to want "RP'ing" on how exactly they're going to waste last 45 minutes of their life (if done close to selling point, ore trade.) - by being blown up and losing all cargo or just by losing all cargo?
Then those people can leave, as RP-Phobics should not be welcome here. You're describing power traders basically, which are not good for the server.
(07-07-2014, 11:15 AM)Lonely_Ghost Wrote: Srsly. Power silent trading is same to Jumptrading. Both focused at monymaking. But if you are a pirate, and you have met such silent trader, you would have at least a blue msg, to satisfy your ego.
Power trading and silent trading are bad. Thank you for comparing Jump trading to those two things, because you're proving my point. The difference with Jump trading is that there's no interactions with any third parties whatsoever.
Space is dangerous. Trading should not be risk free.
I'll post a detailed account of what happened during my encounter with a group of Jump traders later.
Quote:I think, the most Q_Q here comes from one thing: Not getting your blue.
Srsly. Power silent trading is same to Jumptrading. Both focused at monymaking. But if you are a pirate, and you have met such silent trader, you would have at least a blue msg, to satisfy your ego.
The last part of Q_Q comes from another thing: Not getting your money.
Srsly. Power silent trading is same to Jumptrading. Both focused on moneymaking. And you don't want anything to stand between you and your cargo sellpoint.
The most ridiculous thing I found, that people who made 10 billions from jumptrading want to make 100 billions more.
(07-07-2014, 11:33 AM)Zayne Carrick Wrote: The most ridiculous thing I found, that people who made 10 billions from jumptrading want to make 100 billions more.
Furthermore, it's ridiculous that people who have the RP quality of utter newbies have access to such technology.
I guess most of the people arguing for jump trading here, either benefit from it, or have a personal grudge on Lyth. And yeah, it sickens me everytime to chase the jump traders and just be let barefaced when they do all kind of crap to avoid getting caught. Ranging from F1'ing, to logging enemy ships to put you down, to multiboxing. A guy was sanctioned for multiboxing, and what he did all time in this server was to jump a barge. The ridiculous amounts of money they make, without any risk of getting pirated.
When I tried to pirate those 2 (I couldnt find out their jumpspots, so after searching for long, I camped the sell point) he logged his Zoner Nephilim to kill me. The quality of server is such, with people like him (his ships were deleted by admins for multiboxing and god forbid, they have magically resurfaced again). He is now jumptrading premium scrap. Those kind of people are the ones who make this server into a crapton of garbage. I can point out not one, not two, but many such jump traders. Hell, do you guys even think before speaking? Telling all fairytale choices (like using cloaks to tail their supply ships) without even trying them. If you don't want to speak things practically, better stay away from a problem, that has been persistent for sometime now.
You guys who are speaking, if there is proof that indys and unofficials jumptrading improves the "RP" quality of a RP server, for godsake, please present it here. Official factions are the only ones using them, without abusing them. All my encounters with jumptraders, bar the few ones with official factions, have been bullcrap and a waste of time, usually leaving me annoyed for most part.
(07-07-2014, 11:33 AM)Zayne Carrick Wrote: The last part of Q_Q comes from another thing: Not getting your money.
I suppose we should just make all equipment lootable then because pvp loosers are getting their own equipment even though my gank force blew them up. You don't want anything to stand between you and the guns on your ship.
(07-07-2014, 11:32 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: Space is dangerous. Trading should not be risk free.
Space is always risk free for the wealthy. You want risk free trading, either get a expensive escort or a jumping battleship, that is an entitlement. Space in a video game is not socialism, the rich do not have to be penalized for putting their time into the game.
Simply because this is a GAME, NOBODY comes here to be nerfed or penalised. What you seem to be looking for lyth is just an easy kill switch on any trader that crosses the path of your pirate. However trading is the backbone of Disco activity (consider it ambient life that boosts the player list), piracy is not, therefore trading takes priority over piracy.
Do I have experience in piracy? Of course not that's why I tried to join your lovely faction in an effort to learn and increase my understanding, but I do have experience in being pirated when a pirate knows what he is doing, which if you clearly don't then you should not attempt to pirate jump traders, but for your failure blame no-one except your own inadequacy, a bank heist takes careful planning and tactics, not just "i haff bigger gunz so u geif $$$". You know why your local bank isn't robbed every day? Because robbery is hard and takes skill and cunning, so much that most people would rather earn their bank credit through an easy honest living.
Stop complaining about being detected by traders and remove that fancy faction tag or that well known pirate name, because even inRP, news of a well known pirate travels fast. I think this is covered by spazzy's piracy tutorial and applies here as well. If the jump party F1s while in range of your scanners, then report them. If you got detected before you zeroed in then its your own damn fault.
I'm sure the devs are doing everything in their power to balance the game, in the meantime you should lay off the removesauce.
(07-07-2014, 11:32 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: Space is dangerous. Trading should not be risk free.
Space is always risk free for the wealthy. You want risk free trading, either get a expensive escort or a jumping battleship, that is an entitlement.
An entitlement that is being abused for the worse. We have to balance the mod for everyone, not prioritize a single group above others.
(07-07-2014, 12:01 PM)lIceColon Wrote: Space in a video game is not socialism, the rich do not have to be penalized for putting their time into the game.
I disagree. As a multiplayer game, there shouldn't be some kind of achievable money making god mode once you reach your trading 'end-game'.
(07-07-2014, 12:01 PM)lIceColon Wrote: Simply because this is a GAME, NOBODY comes here to be nerfed or penalised.
But people come here to have fun. What Jump trading does is it cuts out pirates from the 'Discovery food chain' as I'd like to call it. Or at the very least, it turns it into something abnormal, hence why we have pirates acting as terrorists and shooting everything up, rather than do actual piracy.
(07-07-2014, 12:01 PM)lIceColon Wrote: What you seem to be looking for lyth is just an easy kill switch on any trader that crosses the path of your pirate.
If I had lead JM with such a mentality, it'd be dead.
(07-07-2014, 12:01 PM)lIceColon Wrote: However trading is the backbone of Disco activity, piracy is not, therefore trading takes priority over piracy.
No, neither has priority over the other. They're both the backbone of server activity. Traders trade goods, pirates log on to shoot traders, lawfuls log on to shoot pirates. It's all interlinked to create a bustling and flourishing server. At least, I would say such if Traders did not silently power trade, or actually bothered to interact with players other than themselves rather than use a jump drive to make as much pixel credits as they want.
(07-07-2014, 12:01 PM)lIceColon Wrote: Do I have experience in piracy? Of course not that's why I tried to join your lovely faction in an effort to learn and increase my understanding, but I do have experience in being pirated when a pirate knows what he is doing
That doesn't count, it's only a small slice of the activity. You can't only play a trader and say "I have full knowledge of piracy".
(07-07-2014, 12:01 PM)lIceColon Wrote: which if you clearly don't then you should not attempt to pirate jump traders, but for your failure blame no-one except your own inadequacy,
Ah, the classic lIceColon 'leave us alone and don't interact with us' arguments.
We need to balance the game to make things viable for all parties involved. You don't see the LN with some kind of 'super cannon' that deals 999999999999999999999999999999 and travels at a speed of 99999999999999999999 m/s and can raze GRN/RM fleets in a second.
(07-07-2014, 12:01 PM)lIceColon Wrote: a bank heist takes careful planning and tactics, not just "i haff bigger gunz so u geif $$$". You know why your local bank isn't robbed every day? Because robbery is hard and takes skill and cunning, so much that most people would rather earn their bank credit through an easy honest living.
Lets not make comparisons to real life scenarios when we're playing a video game please.
(07-07-2014, 12:01 PM)lIceColon Wrote: I'm sure the devs are doing everything in their power to balance the game, in the meantime you should lay off the removesauce.
As players, it's up to us to play the game and suggest ways in which the Devs can make the game even more fun for everyone.
Quote:I suppose we should just make all equipment lootable then because pvp loosers are getting their own equipment even though my gank force blew them up. You don't want anything to stand between you and the guns on your ship.
Hell yes! I'm even for permadeath. One will think twice before logging his precious battleship/barge/etc, knowing it can easily become staflier.
Quote: If you got detected before you zeroed in then its your own damn fault.
It's my fault that I'm appearing in player list with my tag, level and system? Sorry, didn't know that.