Why are there so many Junkers?

[Gahc_Spotok]

Ditch the idea of "premium scrap".

Why.

See the edit I made while you typed that.

You can do your l33t RP whether there a noobs in a faction or not.

I don't want my NPC faction turning into a faction where it only has appeal to noobs, and is dwarfed by other factions as a result.

The problem is nobody wanted that, and now we're lucky when we got 100 player online at peak hours. If the apeal of the non-noobs that they had for hte junkers was only because of big bucks they could make, I dont think a change would be a bad thing.

---

User was banned for: Karlotta
Time left: (Permanent)

[Lythrilux]

But Lyth, you don't have NPC faction. Junkers are openly available faction to all players on this server.

You know what I meant.

Junkers should find scrap/junk in places where it makes sense to be found: In the junk fields in house space. A super propfitable kind of scrap turns the junkers into something they'Re not suposed to be.

How so? Junkers aren't beggars and homeless people. They're wealthy.

You can do your l33t RP whether there a noobs in a faction or not.

I don't want my NPC faction turning into a faction where it only has appeal to noobs, and is dwarfed by other factions as a result.

The problem is nobody wanted that, and now we're lucky when we got 100 player online at peak hours. If the appeal of the non-noobs that they had for the junkers was only because of big bucks they could make, I don't think a change would be a bad thing.

Perhaps people are playing Junkers more due to the amount of money they can make. However those sorts of people are playing Junkers for the wrong reason and I do not envision the Junkers catering to those people.
But really though. How can you think that turning a faction purely into a tutorial faction with little ambition would not be a bad thing? Think about all the effort dedicated Junker players and the two Junker official factions have put into the Junker NPC faction as a whole.

---

[Gahc_Spotok]

Perhaps people are playing Junkers more due to the amount of money they can make. However those sorts of people are playing Junkers for the wrong reason and I do not envision the Junkers catering to those people.

Good. We agree on that then.

But really though. How can you think that turning a faction purely into a tutorial faction with little ambition would not be a bad thing? Think about all the effort dedicated Junker players and the two Junker official factions have put into the Junker NPC faction as a whole.

Here you do a backwards flip on what you just said.

First of all, making junkers suitable for a tutorial faction (I think every faction should get more tutorial elemnt) deosnt change anything for people already playing it.

You can continue your RP about semi/lawful or congress or piracy or marauding exactly the way you did before.

Its the taking away of the larger profits that would change something. You just said you wouldnt want to cater to those people.

I remember Tinkerbell starting the Congrss RP, and he's been the reason (together with a relative openness and friendlyness to noobs) why I always looked fondly on the congress while a lot of people didnt (before and now, alhtough Im hardly playing anymore). He was flying around RPing, and wasnt interested in any sort of credit profit. At all.

---

User was banned for: Karlotta
Time left: (Permanent)

[Lythrilux]

First of all, making junkers suitable for a tutorial faction (I think every faction should get more tutorial elemnt) deosnt change anything for people already playing it.

---

Its the taking away of the larger profits that would change something. You just said you wouldnt want to cater to those people.

But I also don't believe that it's fair to nerf the whole faction because some people don't integrate themselves into the RP properly.
Don't balance the majority for the minority. Furthermore, don't strip them off their ability to stand balanced with other factions out there.

I remember Tinkerbell starting the Congrss RP, and he's been the reason (together with a relative openness and friendlyness to noobs) why I always looked fondly on the congress while a lot of people didnt (before and now, alhtough Im hardly playing anymore). He was flying around RPing, and wasnt interested in any sort of credit profit. At all.

I'm not saying Junker players shouldn't be friendly to newer people willing to take up and play the faction, I'm saying that it's wrong to 'balance' the faction as a whole via dev input in order to specifically cater newbies.

---

[Gahc_Spotok]

First of all, making junkers suitable for a tutorial faction (I think every faction should get more tutorial elemnt) deosnt change anything for people already playing it.

---

Its the taking away of the larger profits that would change something. You just said you wouldnt want to cater to those people.

But I also don't believe that it's fair to nerf the whole faction because some people don't integrate themselves into the RP properly.
Don't balance the majority for the minority. Furthermore, don't strip them off their ability to stand balanced with other factions out there.

I remember Tinkerbell starting the Congrss RP, and he's been the reason (together with a relative openness and friendlyness to noobs) why I always looked fondly on the congress while a lot of people didnt (before and now, alhtough Im hardly playing anymore). He was flying around RPing, and wasnt interested in any sort of credit profit. At all.

I'm not saying Junker players shouldn't be friendly to newer people willing to take up and play the faction, I'm saying that it's wrong to 'balance' the faction as a whole via dev input in order to specifically cater newbies.

At the core my belief is that asking people to balance themselves, while leaving loopholes for trusted people "who deserve better" to avoid balancing themselves, just doesnt work, and only leads to bickering, mistrust, and unfairness.

Trying to do it that way didnt work in PvP, it didnt work with caps, it didnt work with tech permissions, it didnt work with mining.

I also believe that all (open) factions should not be balanced to be equivalent in terms of money or in terms of military power. Rogues shouldnt have caps that can compete with LN caps, junkers shouldnt be as rich as corporations. It dont make sense in RP. Instead, they should each have their separate specialized advantages which makes sense IRP. For junkers, that should be to make money from pretty much nothing. FOr corporations, it should be turning their existing capital into huge profits unrivaled by anything else (especially junk collecting).

---

User was banned for: Karlotta
Time left: (Permanent)

[Thyrzul]

Come on, Lyth, don't try to tell us Junkers got rich from simple scrap mining. If that would be enough for richdom you wouldn't smuggle cardamine and artifacts.

---

[Lythrilux]

At the core my belief is that asking people to balance themselves, while leaving loopholes for trusted people "who deserve better" to avoid balancing themselves, just doesnt work, and only leads to bickering, mistrust, and unfairness.

How do we have that problem with Junkers right now at all?

junkers shouldnt be as rich as corporations.

Considering all their ties, bases and influence they have, I don't see why not.

It dont make sense in RP. Instead, they should each have their separate specialized advantages which makes sense IRP. For junkers, that should be to make money from pretty much nothing. FOr corporations, it should be turning their existing capital into huge profits unrivaled by anything else (especially junk collecting).

Junkers make money from smuggling, scrap mining as well as piracy. I don't see any problems there. Junkers are specialized in Scrap collecting, as well as having the right diplomacy to smuggle effectively. Furthermore, they can indulge in piracy outside of house space, where they can fence cargo and make good use of their diplomacy yet again.

Come on, Lyth, don't try to tell us Junkers got rich from simple scrap mining. If that would be enough for richdom you wouldn't smuggle cardamine and artifacts.

I never said that.

---

[larzac]

junkers shouldnt be as rich as corporations.

Well, when you see that junkers control almost all contraband + all scrap market, i dont see why.

from an inrp point of view, remember that Junkers dont pay tax or things like that, not like corporation. They only pay when they got caught, and it's not everyday. If you add that contraband (still inrp) is most of time more profitable than legal goods, i dont see why junkers shouldnt be as rich as corporations. i would say, they are even more rich, but like it's dirty money, it's harder to use to buy legal stuff after.

---

[Papa Oomaumau]

How did we go from 'why so many' to a conversation about balance and the very core of what Junkers are.
Lyth is right - Junkers are wealthy - Junkers are the Mafia.
More money than corporations? Hell yes.
Is that money kept in banks and waved around publicly? Not so much.

---

[Mímir]

Because the money generated for purchasing junker illicit goods stem from from the regular economy.

To believe that Junkers can in any way or shape measure up to one of the large successfull corporations in terms of finances is preposterous.


edit: not thereby saying that junkers cant be very, very rich as a combined entity.

---