(06-01-2020, 07:23 PM)Binski Wrote: Ok so what is real RP then if not back stories on the forum or RP'ing in-game?
As it also sounds like an argument to protect investments. In recent cases, Enclave is the protected party, they can cause long term damage and can't really be hurt in return in a similar way.
As long as there is some fair bit of rp for a siege its fine, doesnt have to be elaborate. My point was, if a group like the Enclave is here and at it for RP as much as PVP, they might not mind the need to have a base to protect on their end, that requires RP to get along well like a POB.
People decry me for hunting Enclave npc's for cargo when there is not even the slightest bit of Enclave player trade ships going in or out of their space. It does seem like they don't want to bother with a POB or defending their space while being ok with taking out those that do.
Binski. So what you see as POB issue "they can cause long term damage and can't really be hurt in return in a similar way" - is the gameplay-plane problem. Can you stop bringing RP to defend your views?
For RP discussion those Enclave factions have appropriate feedback threads, where you will be explained why their actions make perfect sense inRP.
I see that you want EVE alike contesting system, and i even know guys who did this conception by specialised event servers, which battles decided changes of border worlds claims, but current disco far away from this conception. VERY FAR AWAY. Good it or bad.
Current POBs owners know, that if they express their RP as POB building, other players can express their RP as POB destroying. Nobody forced to build POB for RP, so its entirely fair deal in view of same distribution of RP possibilities.
So fucking stop bring it in every hole, for gods sake!
Let's begin with fixing the PoB plugin. Apparently it's a terribly compiled chunk of code no one bothers looking into, instead imposing sanctions for using it's flaws.
Then again, let's take Eldorado as an example. It took eight battleships attacking it for roughly twelve hours straight to take it down. At some point - once - a sizeable BAF| fleet logged and driven the attackers away, Sava and Karlotta have been tampering with weapon platforms for over an hour in hopes to catch unwary battleship, pummel it and effectively remove it from the siege. Though it did not work out.
There is nothing to fix about the balance of the sieges. Position your base better, muster sizeable defense force if it is attacked. Certainly, you don't log and kill the attackers once in hopes they'll just lay down their arms and give up on trying.
Sava Wrote:I'm pretty sure that many factions can field a fleet of comparable size when it's not ***** 3 am. In case with Eldorado, when BAF was able to mass log, there usually was no one to shoot at. Few big fights happened, some of them were won by the BAF, and it had a 0 impact on the siege.
That's right. It did not have any impact on the siege because it involves both defenders and attackers logging simultaneously, it is meaningless otherwise. Sure, i admit, attackers do have some advantage in sieges, but that can be decreased to minimum if the weapon platforms cover most of the blind spots and PoB has a better position which heavy battleships can't reach effortlessly.
The essential issue lies in the plugin itself, with platforms losing it's target and the base mostly relying on it's shield for survivability. The regeneration rates are a joke and they only work to a degree because of shield absorption. Weapon platforms should be re-programmed properly, shield module damage absorption and base regeneration rates should be reviewed.
Peace, being the distant dream it is, comes inevitably, and goes hand in hand with justice.
Cursed be the war.
(06-01-2020, 07:23 PM)Binski Wrote: Ok so what is real RP then if not back stories on the forum or RP'ing in-game?
As it also sounds like an argument to protect investments. In recent cases, Enclave is the protected party, they can cause long term damage and can't really be hurt in return in a similar way.
As long as there is some fair bit of rp for a siege its fine, doesnt have to be elaborate. My point was, if a group like the Enclave is here and at it for RP as much as PVP, they might not mind the need to have a base to protect on their end, that requires RP to get along well like a POB.
People decry me for hunting Enclave npc's for cargo when there is not even the slightest bit of Enclave player trade ships going in or out of their space. It does seem like they don't want to bother with a POB or defending their space while being ok with taking out those that do.
Binski. So what you see as POB issue "they can cause long term damage and can't really be hurt in return in a similar way" - is the gameplay-plane problem. Can you stop bringing RP to defend your views?
For RP discussion those Enclave factions have appropriate feedback threads, where you will be explained why their actions make perfect sense inRP.
I see that you want EVE alike contesting system, and i even know guys who did this conception by specialised event servers, which battles decided changes of border worlds claims, but current disco far away from this conception. VERY FAR AWAY. Good it or bad.
Current POBs owners know, that if they express their RP as POB building, other players can express their RP as POB destroying. Nobody forced to build POB for RP, so its entirely fair deal in view of same distribution of RP possibilities.
So ***** stop bring it in every hole, for gods sake!
Actually its a few tweaks and a couple spreadsheets in a sub forum away at any given time.
I dont and have never played Eve so I don't know anything about what they do. But we have events, we have sieges, we propel storyline. Organization can tie it all together and use the game world as the medium its supposed to be. We do this anyways. But as far as I'm concerned, bases should exist inrp by the time they're shielded, and sieges should all be result of playing to the faction lore, wih corresponding rp.
I don't really know what you're getting at though. I've helped defend many bases over the years and its the same thing, it always comes back to the balance of work in vs work to destroy it. And its always been easier to destroy than create stuff, and it works the same with bases.
My argument is add more to its defensability, but that could be any number of options. more or longer range WP's, stronger bases, less commodities required...or add to these scenarios like npc bases to divert some effort to other things.
Maybe even just making Repair ships work on POB's would make it so anyone could log to add extra repairs to it during lulls. Then everyone could have freelancer repair ships stashed on any POB, and the race would be on to damage vs heal a base, and a battle to deter defenders, repairers, or attackers.
RP wise, I'm happy if people just do their bare min in game. If we did add a system or more ship bases to fight, I imagine it would help forum rp by giving more actually going on to rp about.
(06-01-2020, 12:39 PM)Sava Wrote: So, we've all heard different opinions about whether or not sieges and POB construction require a comparable level of effort, and if the current mechanics is justifiable.
I offer a new approach that would make it a more level playground, introducing a feasible counterplay and consequences for the sieging party.
My proposition is ammo-based siege equipment, with ammo being produced/available only at POBs
I second that.
(06-01-2020, 12:56 PM)Shiki Wrote:
(06-01-2020, 12:51 PM)Sava Wrote:
(06-01-2020, 12:46 PM)Shiki Wrote: With pobs still having platforms your proposition is awfully one sided. Now you can proceed with making 10 more pob whining threads instead of actually defending them.
Why? The attackers can build WPs around their siege factory as well
You enforce pob esque building gameplay on people who dont enjoy pobs. POBs are economy option working through ass plugin in space shooter game with rp elements.
You are always welcome to grind away at POBs for hours and hours and hours with conventional capship weapons.
(06-01-2020, 06:07 PM)Tiger Wrote: Just delete pobs and make NPC stations sell 'cloaks, drives, etc.', basically ***** that pobs produce at a fixed cost.
90 percent of ore pobs are useless anyway.
EDIT: Ore on certain bases at a fixed price as well, about 2.5K to 3.5K or 4K depending on ore
Something like that was suggested before, but the devs don't want to do this because it reduces RP-interaction and is a time-consuming process to simply add ores as regular commodities into the NPC bases.
(06-01-2020, 12:39 PM)Sava Wrote: So, we've all heard different opinions about whether or not sieges and POB construction require a comparable level of effort, and if the current mechanics is justifiable.
I offer a new approach that would make it a more level playground, introducing a feasible counterplay and consequences for the sieging party.
My proposition is ammo-based siege equipment, with ammo being produced/available only at POBs
I second that.
Can you imagine the RP value of this? Enclave force Goldgeist to surrender thus capturing a commercial base, and then turning the production into building an ammo factory. Exactly why destroying a PoB is wrong. They annex it thus claiming a foothold on Dublin space.
BAF try to regain the territory and you have... wait for it.... RP! PvP RP at that!
Battles around a strategic position. BAF recapture PoB and they in turn produce weapons to prosecute a war.
As ammo needs to be factory built, and ammo is slow to produce, then Enclave gets merchants to deliver essential war supplies to the captured PoB. Raiding parties harassing their supply lines. TONNES of RP. Ongoing, fun, thrilling even.
(06-01-2020, 12:39 PM)Sava Wrote: So, we've all heard different opinions about whether or not sieges and POB construction require a comparable level of effort, and if the current mechanics is justifiable.
I offer a new approach that would make it a more level playground, introducing a feasible counterplay and consequences for the sieging party.
My proposition is ammo-based siege equipment, with ammo being produced/available only at POBs
I second that.
Can you imagine the RP value of this? Enclave force Goldgeist to surrender thus capturing a commercial base, and then turning the production into building an ammo factory. Exactly why destroying a PoB is wrong. The annex it thus claiming a foothold on Dublin space.
BAF try to regain the territory and you have... wait for it.... RP! PvP RP at that!
As ammo needs to be factory built, and ammo is slow to produce, then Enclave gets merchants to deliver essential war supplies to the captured PoB. Raiding parties harassing their supply lines. TONNES of RP. Ongoing, fun, thrilling even.
And guess what? The PoB is NOT DESTROYED!
Ships respawn, PoB's don't.
Some nice ideas here. This way you even could win back a POB or pummel the attackers ammo supply by besieging your own former base and sacrifice it so other POBs in the sector won't be attacked so quickly. Because the attackers have to haul ammo from New Paris instead of Dublin.
Just too many "IF" situations. Imagine Gallia winning over Bretonia , we could use them against Liberty.
Just get over with the fact PoBs happen to die, accept the fact you should have defend it, accept the fact you should have built WPs. And accept the fact there was nothing special about the base beside it being a storage. And a nuisance for people who wanted to pirate people in the mining field without "Oh no, I see pirate in the system, let's run to PoB" instead of running to far away solars.
Oh btw, if you want to buff/nerf something about PoBs, then make something useful for all types of environments and player activity. Because lawful PoBs in Liberty are pretty much unkillable.
(06-01-2020, 09:13 PM)Shinju Wrote: ..."Oh no, I see pirate in the system, let's run to PoB" instead of running to far away solars.
...
In all my years of mining (including encountering unlawfuls as a miner and even pirating miners myself), I have never, ever seen this situation you and so many people have described in similar threads as an argument against POBs.
Yeah I can definitely show you pictures of docked ships, or people and traders quickly logging off when somebody with known tag hope into their mining system. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Gallia, Liberty, Bretonia, Taus And Omegas. All the same, half of the encounters.