The tax is not 100,000 or 200,000 per some number of cargo units.
It is only 1-2 hundred k for your entire hold, if your hold is over 1000.
Again, this is a very reasonable amount. Also, thank you for considering Ageira's import of Gate/Lane parts.
Also again, I would really like to see this rule enforced more by the RFP than the RM, in order to give them something important to do. But considering the fact that the RFP doesn't have the RM's numbers (because military ID's can do everything that police ID's can do and more), it seems that allowing the military to impose the tariff is a practical necessity.
Its late over here in Europe and I have thought about some possible changes due to seeing the taxsystem in action.
Also seeing the lot of valuable replies and concerns, added some thoughts I will think of until tomorrow or during the day.
Quick edit:
I also will think about the liberty corporations.
Which does not eman they will be all excepted of the tax. Just look at what makes the most sense. As an example, Synth foods makes the big cash in Rheinland, so why except them?
This would've worked better in 4.84 when you still had niobium/diamonds, there are some good routes between rheinland and kusari, but I'm not sure they're that busy, as I explained in another thread BretoniaRheinland trade is crap, and pirated heavily, with the zoners/slavers issue currently in 4.85, or anyone who can feasably run dueteriumcounterfiet, or slavescardi, noone really NEEDS rheinland, except blockaderunners (which is all you'll probably get) or real traders, traders that somehow stick to the poor profit and high piracy routes for the love of their factions, and it'd punish them.
Though actually I'm tired, and I think this might only effect LibertyRheinland? Might be ok that way, but taxing the bad trade routes is not going to help, wait until those runs are better than the two runs I mentioned, then you might have something.
I always see such things as 2 roles.
1. Trader get taxed. Trader pay money. Rheinland receives cash.
2. Rheinland receives cash. Trader stays alive.
3. If trader refuse, trader die.
Getlemen, this is what pirates do. Have Rheinland become a state of criminals? What's with Daumann and Kruger? They have to pay fines too? I don't really get that reason for that traders will be fined now, cause they just do hard and fair mercantile. There's many danger out there for some reason. Do you give those peoples even escorts? Do you bear responsibility for that trades? You really care about those guys and girls who may travel trough hell to get their cash to survive in a harsh universe? Or is it just economic survival? Maybe 'Give money and you live'? And then asking why Rheinland is getting unattractive. That's funny.
Well, the alternative that port authorities use nowadays is not allowing the ship to unload its cargo. Due to the nature of the game, this is not possible. Shooting, however, is.
I think this is protectionism in a way, and I'll be watching to see what the reaction of most traders is. The low levels of levies imposed might be a good idea to provide some sort of revenue for naval and police factions outside trading on alternate characters, but Im doubtful it will be recieved at-all well from transport pilots.
Alternatively, people will just find trade routes with places that the RM never are but are still in Rheinland. At least, that's what I'd do.
' Wrote:I always see such things as 2 roles.
1. Trader get taxed. Trader pay money. Rheinland receives cash.
2. Rheinland receives cash. Trader stays alive.
3. If trader refuse, trader die.
Getlemen, this is what pirates do. Have Rheinland become a state of criminals?
I think you are mixing up things here. Pirates do not tax, they rob. An official government taxes for various reasons. In this case we tax, because inRP we need money for the war with Liberty and the trade lanes have to be kept running, which also costs money. You as a trader are asked to pay that partially. You profit from the trade with Rheinland and use our lanes: then you will support us with a small tax.
If you refuse to pay, you are free to go, nobody is willing to kill you if you do not want to pay. You are asked to turn around and leave in peace. If you refuse to do so... you know what happens to people who don't obey the Rheinwehr's orders.
' Wrote:What's with Daumann and Kruger? They have to pay fines too? I don't really get that reason for that traders will be fined now, cause they just do hard and fair mercantile.
Again you make the mistakes to mix up 'fine' and 'tax'. A fine is something you have to pay when you violated our laws and the amound is quite a bit (4 million if you catch you smuggling too often).
A tax is mandatory and very low. (200.000 for a full hold of Military Vehicles is reasonable, as you profit several millions.) And it is no punishment like a fine. Regarding Daumann/Kruger: No, they do not need to pay these taxes, as they are Rheinland based companies, who pay taxes with being based in Rheinlans inRP.
' Wrote:There's many danger out there for some reason. Do you give those peoples even escorts? Do you bear responsibility for that trades?
We do what we can to make Rheinland safe for traders. Many people will assure you that the chance to be pirated in Rheinland might be the lowest in Sirius. If there is a pirate within our systems, he will probably only rob one or two traders. That is not much. Responsibility is up to the traders and possible escorts. Yes, escorts. You are free to hire mercenaries or freelancers as escorts every time. It is not the Militaries duty to escort traders, but to keep the house safe.
I am sure that our pilot will show common sense if you traders do that, too. I can imagine that they will make a patrol in your direction until you reach the borders of our territory. It is all up to the reaction of the traders and how good their RP is. Be nice and we will be nice, too.
' Wrote:You really care about those guys and girls who may travel trough hell to get their cash to survive in a harsh universe? Or is it just economic survival? Maybe 'Give money and you live'?
This is rather pointless and polemic and does not help us improving the system.
Today we will have a talk again and may consider various points, which seemed logically so far. The result will be published this afternoon.
I'm just gonna state this: If I ever go into Rhienland (highly unlikely) then I won't pay. Others will feel the same so they won't go, people don't like to pay therefore they won't go into Rhienland. Or what a smart trader would do is wait until there are no [RM] online and then trade.
' Wrote:so when you pay the military and police - you expect to be protected by pirates. - if the police FAILS for whatever reason to pay "their" side of the deal, the trader starts to feel "extorted". - and the police becomes nothing but petty pirates.
Exactly the point I was about to make. If you go forward with this idea at least give something in return. An armed escort to Rheinland borders.
I don't mind about the amount really. It's the hassle involved with it. As it is it's too complicated scheme. A compromise between RP and practicality.
What I suggest is that you lump together all the payable goods and extract 100k for it. It's the minimum sum.
UNTAXED. Mainly basic goods.
Consumer Goods
Fertilizers
Food Rations
Oxygen
Scrap Metal
Synth Paste
Terraforming Gases
Water
Toxic Waste
TAXED. All the rest legal goods.
100k for over 1000
As it is you put a lot of pressure for your officers to remember the list prices. It will only lead to confusion. I believe the simpler the better.
Second suggestion is that why don't you offer foreign official trading factions a corporate tax option? Say bowex pays 1 million a week? Or something like that? It would be simple and efficient. No need for individual trader faction players to pay up each time. And it ensures the revenue even when you are not online.
One thing is unclear to me. Do you have to pay both entering and departing? It makes no sense to me have both. Besides it's easier for you to handle this way. Any trader met inside Rheinland with taxable cargo will be levied once, no matter if he/she is going in or our or is just transiting.
The real problem is the one people have mentioned here. What are you going to do if the trader refuses? Simply blowing the trader up will have bad repercussions to Rheinland as a whole. RM will come off as a powergaming faction no matter how you explain this. If you blow up a trader 3k from his target destination with hull full of goods you are going to generate A LOT of resentment and most likely they will never come back if they see RM online. As it is Rheinland is quite barren of people already.
What to do to the no-sayers is the main question and an answer to that is important. An answer I do not have.