Player input requested:

[SnakThree]

DELETE

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[Slavik]

i know a solution...

get your arse ingame, bring a transport and help sairs build a base at the JH.... no more trading going that way...

Look at it from a Player perspective; No dev meddling, route is still there, JH is still there, it is moderated with roleplay instead of forced game mechanics.. Want to complain? cry to the sairs. No devs within the sair playerbase anyway. So your off the hook.

I can also guarantie that you will have lots of fun building that base too.

Just putting down a playerbase won't bloody work and you know it...

No devs within the sair playerbase anyway. So your off the hook.

I thought I knew one or two... could be me....

Goodluck with finding the distance you need aeternus, if you want to discuss something or have a fresh Point of view I'd be more then willing to help.

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once known as Richard Farbridge, OBE and Ronaldo Benitez

[Benjamin]

*sigh* I'm done here. Snapp, strongly recommend you read everything before throwing up a +1.
- We don't want to put lines on IDs because that makes for more admin work.
- It is not just one route. Any traffic coming out of Kusari with destination Cambridge or vicinity gets nudged over this route as fastest to travel.

I'll sort it out.

Anything you do is going to involve loads of trade rebalancing, right? (both of my faction's based, for one, are very heavily balanced around that jumphole). So rather than doing something then rebalancing a load of routes, can't you solve it just be rebalancing routes.

By which I mean: if you want Honshu/Cambridege business to go down the lanes, why not change the routes to put an intermediary in the taus or whatever. Buy A on Honshu, sell A in Taus and buy B, sell B on Cambridge.

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[Daedric]

It's also vanilla lore that jumpholes sometimes come in and out of phase alignment. So disabling one is perfectly in-lore. But that's beside the point. I asked for player input since I wasn't too sure that my own thoughts were the best in this. Was expecting a few snotty responses, given there's a few immature elements in our playerbase.

Really? You have the IDS#s to the rumors or infocards with this lore in them? Or are we making up lore to justify destroying other lore now?

If you consider my responses snotty or immature then that is your own problem. I gave you what you asked and informed you of the failures of your line of thinking. Instead of admitting those failures you ignored them and continued to base your line of thinking on them.

I'm glad you asked for our input because as I said you're fix for your problem was taking a hammer to the game. Same fix that those before you applied multiple times. It is one of our dev team's problems. One that you guys need to get fixed.

Goodluck with finding the distance you need aeternus, if you want to discuss something or have a fresh Point of view I'd be more then willing to help.

The distance isn't hard to find. I'm not sure why AD is having a hard time finding it. It took me all of 10 minutes to move a few jump holes around 10k-30k distances along the route he is talking about to get his 130k distance.

Any movement of jump holes is going to create the need to review the jump holes that passes through them. So either way, deletion or move - there will be more work to fix what is undone by either change. As for why the route can't be balanced without the movement or deletion of a jump hole? Xoria question, as AD has said Xoria asked him to look into this.

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[RedEclipse]

- We don't want to put lines on IDs because that makes for more admin work.

Unlike PvP sanctions punish this violation rather easy - a single SS with Bowex/DHC/Samura in edge worlds would be far enough. It's a problem?

Zoners already got a line which is prevent them from powertrade, so why corp IDs can't get a same thing? That's would be fair.

[Xoria]

Thanks for the cue.

What many of you are missing here is that this has nothing to do with trying to force traders to do anything.

What I am attempting throughout the mod is to enable geography to support good gameplay rather than detract from it. In this particular case, good gameplay is for a corporate transport purchasing optronics from Planet Honshu and selling them at Planet Cambridge to travel the trade lanes through Rheinland in order to reach Cambridge from Honshu. However, the geography is such that going through the Sigmas and Omegas is the fastest path between Honshu and Cambridge. Because of that fact, the price for optronics in Cambridge is based on that shortcut's travel time. What that means is that anyone using the trade lanes through Rheinland to make that transaction is effectively nerfing themselves because they are spending time on a longer route when the price can only pay them for the shortest possible route. What Aeternus is attempting to do is to remove this effective nerf to the trade lane travel by making the Sigma-Omega path longer than the trade lane path - so that the prices can then be set based on the trade lane travel times. The whole point here is that the current geography is nerfing good gameplay.

Player bases guarding jump holes and eliminating docking for transports at these jump holes may make it improbable or impossible for transports to use the shortcut, but it doesn't affect the calculated travel time for the routes, so it's not really an option. I have no problems with transports using this route. What I have a problem with is that transports that choose to use the trade lanes suffer a nerf to their profits because it takes so much extra time that they aren't getting paid for.

Optronics is just one example; this is true for any transactions going between Cambridge, Omega 3, and Eastern Kusari (Honshu, Okinawa). This might even affect routes between Honshu and some bases in New London. Chugoku as a shortcut between Kyushu and Sigma 13 is another issue of this sort for Rheinland-Tau trade. Omicron Alpha is also a shortcut for all upper Gallic trade with Rheinland; so there are several geographic problems that disrupt good trade patterns.

It's also worth reminding all of you that this is not a new thing for this mod. Check singleplayer travel between Alpha and Gamma; I think Alpha originally connected to Theta. Discovery has radically altered that path.

The geographic legacy we have now was not designed to support the function of trading that we now employ in the game. It's time to fix that where possible.

Since it was brought up, increasing trade lane speed is not without consequences of its own. That will negatively impact pirating trade lanes, because the reaction time a pirate will have when a ship is approaching down the lane will decrease. Pirates already have to be pretty quick to bring down a trade lane - there are only a bare handful of seconds from the time a ship appears on scanners to when it has gone past in the lane. Increasing lane speed will decrease that reaction time even further, making lane piracy everywhere more difficult. It would also require the rebalancing of every single commodity price in the mod, and there are 8,000+ of them last time I added them up. So it's not an option to choose without some serious thought and evaluation, and not one that I am likely to endorse in order to fix geographic problems that have other solutions. But I will take a look at it.

It may be that we simply can't re-engineer the geography in all cases to support the best trade patterns. We can at least try, and at worst we can decrease the margin of difference between these open-space shortcuts via jump holes and the proper trade lane paths.

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[Govedo13]

Hm after that input,removing the hole sounds even more reasonable.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Xoria]

Hm after that input,removing the hole sounds even more reasonable.

That is a last resort, and I'm not certain I would support it. We'll first need to see how much distance can be injected into the Omegas and Sigmas without making the travel time outrageous for the ships that should be traveling these systems. We don't want to unduly burden anyone, and I am aware of the need for Corsairs to have an Artifact route through Bretonia to Liberty. There are a lot of factors to balance against each other to reach the best outcome, but some compromises are necessary.

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[Pavel]

Unlike PvP sanctions punish this violation rather easy - a single SS with Bowex/DHC/Samura in edge worlds would be far enough. It's a problem?

Zoners already got a line which is prevent them from powertrade, so why corp IDs can't get a same thing? That's would be fair.

Yes, corporation IDed ships using holes is very ooRP, it would make sense. But, there are factions like IMG, or Cryer which use holes even in vanilla. In addition, someone has to deliver supplies to stations like Dabadouru, restricting them from using holes would limit RP.

[jonfreelanc]

yeah alpha used to go to theta. there was even a news item or rumour somehwere for the outcast that said they had a base in corsair territory. I'm guessing it was in theta. but that never got done or something. they forgot to name hole too it never had any name or text.

I don't see why you can't just move one hole the necessary distance or if that hole is frequented then move a bunch of holes a piece of the way. I think you could get a lot of distance out of the cambridge omega 5 route.

is it possible to make cargo perish in radiation zone? your hull and weapon take damage in radiation zone, is it possible to tell flhook to damage your cargo while in omega 41? you could put a radiation zone that does that to cargo on top of the system where the theta jump hole is. but leave it off the bottom where the gamma hole is so corsairs can still smuggle. though this would probably interfere with zoners from theta.

imo there can be too much balance on the trade system anyway. there are supposed to be some good routes. I'm not implying there are none and I'm not implying you're not doing a good job. I know you're doing a good job as trading is what I do mainly in freelancer when I'm not exploring and I can tell the trading system has quite a lot of polish. anyway I just thought I would mention that.

good luck to you in this little pickle you are having right now.

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so I recently started exploring Coronado. I must say you're all doing a wonderful job.
so I recently started exploring Koeln. I must say you're all doing an amazing job.
some time ago I explored Rousillon. Impressive. Particularly the music on the planet that was a nice surprise.
so I recently started exploring Omega-55. LOL... NOMADS. LOTS AND LOTS OF NOMADS. SHOOTING THINGS. I GOT THE HELL OUT OF THERE. (and I was thinking, jeez I can't remember what that one was from the news. I hope I don't run into a nomad system)
recently started exploring Omega-41. what did you guys do to the star? that new effect there, that's impressive.

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