The Kusari Exiles

[Drake]

The reason why the Ronin will become more popular than the KNF is simple: The Ronin actually have something to do. Kusari was pretty dead even during the KNF/Bretonian war, and I haven't seen anything added to liven it up much. So I expect a lot of those who had KNF ships leftover from 4.85 will want to switch to Ronin.

[jammi]

So why did it take 8 sections to lay out those three points. Aside from that, the Ronin arent a government, they have no claims to any territory, so thats a moot point isnt it. The storyline tells us we are helping defend Bretonia, so thats moot, but it's the third that I am worried about, since you know, I can foresee a ronin ship sitting next to a Gaian ship in Newcastle leading to an FR5.

All that said, there was much more in the proposal than that.

No there wasn't. I just paraphrased all three points. Seriously, that was all it was, extended into numerous points by legal speak, etc.

If you think point one isn't going to affect you, what's the issue with signing it? It's long term RP that will never affect ingame play. We included it because it makes logical sense. If Kogen ever reclaimed the throne, that treaty would still be legit, bringing down international ire on him if he invaded again.

Two, yes, that is exactly why it was included. It's reinforcing the storyline, which is exactly why we're doing this.

Three, you really are overwhelmingly cynical. An FR5 has to be passed through the Admins, yes? If they think it's unreasonable, it won't get passed. We're not that unreasonable either.

EDIT: Something Uns just said strikes me as appropriate. It'll probably help you understand why we're doing this.

[23:21:00] Unseelie: I think, also, that zelot doesn't get that he's trying to start a faction in the house of people who codify everything for kiggles

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[Death.RunningVerminator]

Uhm.. I'm just reading this thread casually, not really.. uh.. looking for trouble. But I'm inclined to agree with Hawk on this:

Now that it has been established that the treaty described in the lore is valid and I've stated that I agree with that, let's take a step back and look at what is really going on here. There is another faction here that had RP handed to them. I've heard you complain about that more times than I can count in the past. I'm not saying that what you are doing with the Ronin is wrong, I'm saying that it might be helpful to take just a minute and think about how other players might feel about this. You are the leader of the Ronin and you participated in righting the lore on which you are falling back. How much input was given by the players in Bretonia? Were they even consulted? It probably would not have changed anything as I think you are on the right track, but it might help them to feel that they are contributing to their own faction's RP and that it matters how they feel about it.

I think they have a legitimate complaint about having something forced on them without their input, even if it is a valid story. Responding back to their complaints with anger and sarcasm doesn't help, it just rubs salt in the wounds.

[Zelot]

This is not constructive to the discussion in any way. It is anger and sarcasm. Zelot, for the most part you are right about the Ronin and their position in Bretonia. You are also right to question what negotiating a treaty now would mean and what someone else might force your faction into.

Now that it has been established that the treaty described in the lore is valid and I've stated that I agree with that, let's take a step back and look at what is really going on here. There is another faction here that had RP handed to them. I've heard you complain about that more times than I can count in the past. I'm not saying that what you are doing with the Ronin is wrong, I'm saying that it might be helpful to take just a minute and think about how other players might feel about this. You are the leader of the Ronin and you participated in righting the lore on which you are falling back. How much input was given by the players in Bretonia? Were they even consulted? It probably would not have changed anything as I think you are on the right track, but it might help them to feel that they are contributing to their own faction's RP and that it matters how they feel about it.

I think they have a legitimate complaint about having something forced on them without their input, even if it is a valid story. Responding back to their complaints with anger and sarcasm doesn't help, it just rubs salt in the wounds.

Your right, it was anger and frustration. Yes, I had a hand in writing the story. I did alot of the details work with the ronin to refine Igiss's initial idea. I offered up my character for the idea, because I thought it was a good one. Yes, there were Bretonian players involved in the dev and story process, several of whom are in this thread coming at the faction. The storyline of Bretonia was completely changed in part due to feedback from members of the dev team who happened to play Bretonian characters. Again, several of whom are in this thread being critical. Yes, these people had the chance to comment, and many did on the Ronin story arch during the dev cycle. This was not done in secret from the Dev team.

Anyway, I am sorry, you are right, I was angry and frustrated, and I probably should have controlled it a bit better.

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[Zelot]

EDIT: Something Uns just said strikes me as appropriate. It'll probably help you understand why we're doing this.

[23:21:00] Unseelie: I think, also, that zelot doesn't get that he's trying to start a faction in the house of people who codify everything for kiggles

Yes, but I dont feel the need to codify everything for "kiggles" So again, instead of over and over telling me what is going to be required of us to play our role, how bout some member of the Bretonian government (I know alot of you have my skype) get in touch with me, and we, oorp and in a spirit of cooperation and as players who have an equal desire to play our character the way we are supposed to, discuss it.

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[Death.RunningVerminator]

Yes, but I dont feel the need to codify everything for "kiggles" So again, instead of over and over telling me what is going to be required of us to play our role, how bout some member of the Bretonian government (I know alot of you have my skype) get in touch with me, and we, oorp and in a spirit of cooperation and as players who have an equal desire to play our character the way we are supposed to, discuss it.

I agree!...

...uh...

Well. I always like it when big discussions and debates end in a friendly handshake. Jammi, Zelot, Dab, whoever, go <strike>make love</strike> handshake!

[Reacher]

1) abide by our laws
2) Assist us against the GRN / Gallia in Bretonia and the Taus - self explanatory and the only reason the Ronin were created.

Cut the fat out and.... That's reasonable!

From past histories 3) Would be used against them because they simply dont go "GAIAN DIE".... You can omit that bit cause "abide by out laws" covers it.

Remember with this treaty A) its not needed since its covered already by lore and B) You need them as much as they need you. With GRN right at your doorstep you can't afford to pick a fight with someone and lose the extra manpower against the GRN

[Unseelie]

Remember with this treaty A) its not needed since its covered already by lore and B) You need them as much as they need you. With GRN right at your doorstep you can't afford to pick a fight with someone and lose the extra manpower against the GRN

Already pitched one fit in this thread regarding this position. But the point is, since the ronnin won't actually make a difference against the GRN...it doesn't make a difference whether they lose the manpower or gain that of the ronin. (and they might enjoy killing the ronin more)

Really, its just the point that bretonia needs the ronin...Bretonia needs someone who can change the tide, not extra mouths.

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[Zelot]

Already pitched one fit in this thread regarding this position. But the point is, since the ronnin won't actually make a difference against the GRN...it doesn't make a difference whether they lose the manpower or gain that of the ronin. (and they might enjoy killing the ronin more)

Really, its just the point that bretonia needs the ronin...Bretonia needs someone who can change the tide, not extra mouths.

I dont know if you realize, the group that makes up the Ronin are the most elite of the elite of the KNF, which by the way was whooping on Bretonia till the frenchies showed up. These were the forces that were being massed for the invasion of Planet Leeds. The best of the best. Plus the Emperor's own Imperial Guard, already the best of the best. They can definitely give out damage. I dont think it's a group that the Queen would want on the other side, or even sitting on the sidelines if she could help it.

Extra mouths to feed. Hrumph.

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[Unseelie]

To be clear, as a person, out of rp, I very much respect this faction. it has so much wonderful potential. I've just got done a research stint on north korea, and am pretty well steeped in the many ways a nation will say 'f you' to even aidworkers when its people are starving and dieing, blind and crippled, because they hate them.

Soo...I've the feeling that the Bretonians are going to not care so much about how awesome your pilots are. And I really, really don't buy the argument that they're going to take help just because they need it. Sadly, Nationalizm and hate is much stronger than that.

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