(12-05-2012, 10:32 PM)Veygaar Wrote: After flying the RM Cruiser... a player will automatically QQ about every other cruiser because suddenly they're not "automatic PvP pros".
The GRN Cruiser is good, it's not the best, but it's good. It can't be flown the same way the RM Cruiser is and shouldn't be. Crying that you are not able to do the exact same on one ship as you can in another is a sign that you do not fully understand the complexity of flying each individual ship in it's own manner. Every ship has a different optimal flying style and setup. Figure that out, and you'll see it works just fine...
okay,then better we will use valors,than this cruiser.I think this is good idea.
If it is has good size\core\arcs - then use it alone,i will use valor.
For example:
8mil core + docking bay + armor + heavy guns
VS
2.5 mil core + cruiser guns + docking bay + armor
no chances...
(12-05-2012, 10:32 PM)Veygaar Wrote: After flying the RM Cruiser... a player will automatically QQ about every other cruiser because suddenly they're not "automatic PvP pros".
The GRN Cruiser is good, it's not the best, but it's good. It can't be flown the same way the RM Cruiser is and shouldn't be. Crying that you are not able to do the exact same on one ship as you can in another is a sign that you do not fully understand the complexity of flying each individual ship in it's own manner. Every ship has a different optimal flying style and setup. Figure that out, and you'll see it works just fine...
...or continue crying here instead of adapting.
i think this is a very easy statement to make (especially when you look at everything from the numbers to the model comparison images), even if it might be true.
to tell you the truth to this date I have never seen one of these properly flown GRN cruisers, neither on the battlefield nor in conn. I had one myself, and while being a noob cruiser pilot, I could still see a significant differerence in my success rate in this one compared to the other cruisers I have tried. Conn is by no means a definitive measure, but I noticed that pro cruiser pilots there rarely seem to have an Obstinate in their ship collection.
When im in a BS fighting random GRN cruisers in conn they go down way faster than any other cruiser I have met - maybe its because all Obstinate pilots are bad, I don't know, but I haven't been killed by an Obstinate and yet I've been pwned by RM cruisers, Hels, Vidars, (even a damn Outcast Corvo), LSC's, LABC's and Bret Dessies. Not exactly scientific, I know, but I am really curious to see how/if someone can really manage to pilot an Obstinate with success and what the recipe is.
To me its still like the Obstinate is balanced to be a good cruiser in a non-turret steer environment, with its dreadnought-like focus on forward firepower.
Quote: with its dreadnought-like focus on forward firepower.
firepower and GRN cruiser - this is 2 big differences.Yes,all guns shooting forward,but 2.5 mil core... what it will give him?-nothing. With 3.6 core and all forward guns - yes,he will do something in fight,but not with 2.5 core.
This is similar to say,that if he will has 30 cruiser forward guns and 2.5 core,what it will give him? - nothing.
2.5 mil core with size of 1.5 labc - something funny.
and dread like..hm,then almost all cruiser dread like in game,bretonia too.
Try to use his guns.
anyway.
he has big size,weak core,bad arcs and slow maneuvering.
I used many cruisers,but this cruiser even with Valors have no change to survive from bombers and others ships,even in turel mode with cm`s.
Tested many days by myself.
yes,if we will give him 3.6 mil core and more armor,he will have some chance to fight,but now,he has nothing.
*sigh* Put a Missile and a LM on the rear facing heavies, 2 cerbs on the front ones. 2 rear pulse and the rest prims.
Against a cruiser you kite away from them at the ENEMIES max Cerb range while you fire missiles/Pulse. Once they shoot a significant amount of cerbs (some missing some hitting) you ekill/glide till your RIGHT next to them and use Prims+Cerbs (turning the cerbs on and off to keep energy up) and just out DPS them. Ekill combined with steering will keep you behind them and right on them.
Against a BS just kite far far out and spam pulse and LMs, maybe the occasional missile. He will literally never hit you at 3k out. If he's a light BS you can do the same but a little closer in to ensure you still hit him.
2 rorry
yes! YES! m8!
i know that you love him! Thats why dont want fly in GRN,when i asked you.
You said that GRN GB and Cruisers sucks.This is was your words.So PLEASE stop spam here about his perfect setup for this cruiser.All already tested.
He has no chance.
your argumentation is fail.
firepower doesnt mean number of guns,firepower mean - core for fight and good positioned arcs,even with 2 turels. 4 bad arcs will not give good firepower,even if they are all forward.
-Tested.
and moving in fight 3 k? okay,you will take it and will fly on it...fight with any ship on any distance in battle,i want to look on it.
But how do you out-dps other cruisers with 10 basics/2 cerbs that only fire forward? Most other cruisers have setups that dish out similar or more damage, and the GRN turrets even have a slightly lower DPE than their direct opponents. True it has the same powercore as the bret dessie, but something like a 3/4 cerb Thannie can easier make its shots count, thereby needing less energy to deliver the same damage.
Also the GRN's main enemy have a hard-to-hit BS, very difficult and slow to nail with pulses/LM's.
I get what you are saying in theory, but in my view it would still require a hefty dose of luck to pull off.
Whats wrong with most of you people? Why have you turned this thread upside down? Cant you read the question of McTenka from post 1?
(12-04-2012, 09:47 PM)McTemka Wrote: Wondering of your opinion and thoughts about necessary buffs.
Where are your opinions? What are these numbers, tactics how to own others in duels...
As I said from my post, comparing 2 ships with totaly different role is wrong. How about you re-read the info from the wiki about the difference between DESTROYER and CRUISER? Maybe you will see how they are balanced.
Quote:Destroyers are lightly-powered cruiser-class vessels with two or less Class 7 Turrets. These ships have no choice but to squeeze the maximum benefit from their agility and Class 6 Turrets to take down enemy ships. Destroyers are particularly suited to eliminating Gunboats, since they have similar speed but much more firepower and significantly more hull strength. Against other ships in the cruiser class, Destroyers must take advantage of their agility to exploit weaknesses in the enemy's weapon coverage. Destroyers can also perform anti-cap functions by utilizing long-range artillery, but are likely to be obliterated if they get in range of the opponent.
Cruisers are the middle-weight ships in the cruiser class, being stronger than Destroyers in overall power and armaments, but with more speed and agility than any of the Battlecruisers. Some of the smaller ships in this sub-class can be quite agile, or have a shape that makes them hard to hit. Meanwhile, some of the larger Heavy Cruisers are on par with Battlecruisers in terms of overall damage output potential.
(-Compare Bret dessi with: Ku dessi, BHG dessi, Zoner dessi, OC dessi, SCRA dessi, LR/M dessi
-Compare GRN cruiser with: RM cr, LN cr, Sari cr, CR cr and etc that are actually cruisers with SHAPE and AGILITY of a cruiser not destroyer)
If you want to change something or try to achieve a change, give your opinions in more structured way so the devs can read them and get the point. Personal skill of a player using a ship is NOT reason for that ship to be nerfed or buffed. Personal skill is and always will remain a factor that can be changed not a constant. If you continue like that this thread may soon be closed and the issue wont be dealt with.
It's not even need to look into wiki, to see the point.
Yes, everybody would agree, that GRN cruiser will lose duel to Bretonia Destroyer in 9 of 10 being in connecticute. Hell yeah, it's not a ship to be used in duels. But it's connecticute, where you can freely have your duel, and noone shall join on your or oponent's side. Right oposite situation we shall have on a battlefield, where your team's work>>>>your personal dueling skills. It's rarely, when you shall have pure connecticute-like cap duel on a battlefield.
BTW, thx BAF and BRF guys to prowe this for me and my cast-iron head.
GRN Cruiser can be used in team fights, helped by bombers, covered by battleship. At least, 4 GRN cruisers and one battleship can take out one Bret dessy.
So, I belive, that option, which should be changed- way of usage.
Use only with cover and support from smaller and bigger ships. Use only in team.
(12-06-2012, 02:21 PM)Lonely_Ghost Wrote: At least, 4 GRN cruisers and one battleship can take out one Bret dessy.
So this is considered to be adequate performance?
The problem isn't that Obstinate dies to Bret dessies, problem is that they die to everything from Challengers to Battleships.
To be constructive, what is needed is a new model. This one is extremely large, and extremely fat and feels like the heavy turrets were just put on there randomly.
That is probably not gonna happen, so I suppose the second-best thing would be to shrink it by 25% and buff agility by 10%.
valor.![[Image: screen125.jpg]](http://s8.postimage.org/mf2woiw6p/screen125.jpg)
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