Gallic cruisers.

[Veygaar]

Here an image I made very fast just so you could see my point:

This I like

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Veygaar for Admin Moderator 2013!!!

[Anaximander]

Hiya, I just need to know what's gonna happen with this?

Will the cruiser be fixed for sure, and when can we expect this to happen?

Or is it just another thread that will lead to absolutely zero results? Is GRN| going to wake up and push the agenda?

[Reptile]

Vote of our team, this is near 7 active players > move it to BC group.

give him:
3.6 mil core
2 BS forward guns 9 class (cannot shot back)
4 cruiser heavy guns 7 class - 2 will shout around (360) ship and 2 will shot forward\up\down (1 left and 1 right)
1 flak under cruiser
6 cruiser guns
resize him
give him more armor
and we will have real powered gallic armada of heavy ships,which will fight with medium powered bretonian,agile fleet.
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yes,still in PvP fight with bretonian dessie he will loose,but when they will be in fleet with valors - dessie will be scared to attack them.

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Wrote:
~Please leave this community, please. You'd be doing everyone a favour.
~Nikita. Please. Go play sims.
~Nikita, stop acting like that... you are just embarrassing yourself.
~Your way to win may be within rules, but you still break Rule 0.0 be excellent to eachother.
~but please just keep it to the Russian Discord chats and off the forums. We're tired of reading it.
then you will see 70 players online in this way. -me
2012©
RNC|MND-Gepard

[Knjaz]

@All, If GRN| and most RNS indies really wanted to do a change for their Cruiser - they would have requested that long ago by: creating threads like this one, contacting the devs, creating a list of proposals for possible changes, requesting new model for the cruiser or simply request a second version - lighter GRN Cruiser. Only then the chances for something to happen are higher.

Who exactly? how many groups of players you knew that were playing GRN? How much of them mass-fielded those cruisers? Everybody who mentioned it, mentioned it long time ago. I believe it was said on the forums already.

I liked your image, with one exception - the bottom one should be the new Obstinate, the upper one should be scrapped or turned into BC. That simple.

Just adding a light cruiser to supplement useless heavy cruiser is not really fixing an issue, right?

Look at the size comparsion provided by Ursus, for example. Current Obstinate is almost ready to become a battlecruiser. It's wider than all battlecruisers out there!

Hiya, I just need to know what's gonna happen with this?

Will the cruiser be fixed for sure, and when can we expect this to happen?

Or is it just another thread that will lead to absolutely zero results? Is GRN| going to wake up and push the agenda?

They didn't do it for a year, I'm not sure if they'll join the train now.

even if the grn obstinate had battlecruiser stats, it would still suck. everything is completely wrong with that ship from size over agility to turret arcs. the council one is a tad bit better, but it still suck so badly that a lot of council players choose a nerfed thannie over it. food for thought. also what mctemka says is true, the gallic fleet need to be able to field cruisers to have success against bret dessies.

This comment has alot of truth in it. Even if it's moved into BC class, it'll still be a cannon fodder.

Ideas for improving GRN cruiser
-slight armor buff
-1 or 2 more standart turrets (cuz really that ship is easy prey for bombers)
-considering the above - slight reduction in speed

Sorry, but these points prove you're not quite... familiar with the issue/large scale fight mechanics. If anything can help current Obstinate if you do not want to redesign it - is a greater agility buff (should be greater than that of a Bretonian Dessie), to compensate for the oversized hull. but there's a limit on how much you can achieve with it. Look at RMBS for the reference. (high agility, huge size - still it's not a problem to snipe it from any distance)


P.S. To be a little more constructive - some of the solutions that I can give without extensive testing on separate server with changed INI files.
1) bring down BretDessie agility in accordance to other 120k'ers (~0.33 rad/sec, currently FL stat shows it as 0.40 rad/sec). It already has the "special hull form", a.k.a. "Please, aim for that big empty spot in the middle. Thank you." won't guarantee it'll be enough, though.
2) Rescale Obstinate to have same ship's internal volume as other 120k'ers of his class, successful ones - RM Cruiser and Vidar come as the best examples here. I.e., it should take same amount of cubic metres of space as those things. (preferably without that bar on the bottom).

[Timmy]

Sorry for my absence.

@All, If GRN| and most RNS indies really wanted to do a change for their Cruiser - they would have requested that long ago by: creating threads like this one, contacting the devs, creating a list of proposals for possible changes, requesting new model for the cruiser or simply request a second version - lighter GRN Cruiser. Only then the chances for something to happen are higher.

The reason why this haven't been made i guess is that GRN| use only fighters. I am GRN| member and as far as I know no one except of me even have cruiser. As about indies. Gallia don't have them.

Someone mentioned that after using RM cruiser everyone start to cry that every other sux. Must say i never used RM cruiser. I only examined how it have been used. Usually using cap don't get too much time to learn for me, and I soon at least able to kill the battleships on cruiser solo. With this one I couldn't find the way. It have only 2 guns shooting backward, but even those two sometimes shooting sometimes don't, depends on the angle.

Also, someone mentioned team work. Only comment about that is that for team work you need at least presence of big enough team. As I mentioned Gallia don't have much indies. Largest number i seen was like 7.. or even less. But that's not enough to deal with every bretonian faction, military liberty factions, colonials, councils even outcasts recently. And i haven't mentioned indies and mercs.

At any rate that was the digression. Back to the point. For the first time I agree with Reptile. This ship don't have enough core to keep forward fire power long enough, don't have any firepower on the back, isn't agile to hit and run from BSs and big enough to be hit even from 1.7k range. Making it a battlecruiser not an option though... I personally dislike all those carrier, battlecruiser and every other attempt to fix mistakes, overpowers and such... sorry for my language. Perhaps new model.. perhaps more agility. But making too much choice even for those few Gallic players is a waste because usually peoples making wrong choice, check liberty.

[Knjaz]

Someone mentioned that after using RM cruiser everyone start to cry that every other sux.

Vidar is pretty much on par with RM one, they're both good examples of "Workhorses of War".

Also, someone mentioned team work.

Exactly what Obstinate pilot should try to avoid at all costs - combat that is involving large amount of people. He's too easy target for a focused fire.

Remember Rogues Combat Manual?
"Big shipz are bad for big fightz. Small ships are good for big fightz"
Same .....t

With the exception of that turning it into a BC... well, I can't say I love that approach, but at least it'll be able to bombard caps with BS Prims. It will still be raped by bombers and cruisers in team combat - way more than Vidars and RMCruisers are.

[Ursus]

Just to summarize a bit... Right now it has Praefect arcs with Vidar size. And the handling sucks.

Simplest option is to increase the handling like with Council Obstinate. It will still be big with bad arcs but at least it will be able to turn around. This is the easiest option by far and makes the most sense.

Another option is to relocate the class-7 hard-points so that it has the same damage potential as Vidar. It will still be big and turn like poop but it will be good in turret steer. This is also pretty straightforward, but it could make problem with Council Obstinate that is supposed to be based on the same ship design.

Option three is turn it into a BC by changing a couple of forward turrets to class-9, relocate the class-7 turrets, and increase hull and core. This would mean Gallia does not have any natural ships in the cruiser class, and also creates problems with Council Obstinate. I personally dislike this option the most.

Last of the simple options is to resize the ship down, maybe as small as Praefect size. It will have bad arcs and turn like poop but at least it will be a little harder to hit.

My opinion is that it should be resized to the other heavy cruisers (RM cruiser, Scylla, Storta, etc, but not as small as Praefect), and given the same handling as the RM cruiser. Do not change the arcs or core. RM cruiser is very good but not the best and can win/lose 50:50 against skilled enemy so there is no problem making the GRN and Council Obstinates the same overall size and handling. They already have similar arcs and core, but the difference in size and handling is tremendous. Close the gap and make them the same just different models and the Obstinate will be very competitive, and fitting a house military, but not OP.

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