DW, USS, Independent Lawfuls

[chopper]

Bounty Hunters guild.
They are a guild, they are supposed to help each other.

It's like saying one Mandalorian wouldn't help another Mandalorian.
They are a guild.
Now, i do agree that one generic Merc has no reason to help another generic Merc or BHG, but BHG do help each other.
It makes perfect sense to me.

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del

[Spear]

I agree that the amount of Caps running about is beyond ridiculous. Although it's not just on the lawful side either, I get it from both perspectives. In my LSF I am usually part of a group and sometimes we heavily outnumber oponents, sometimes I am heavily outnumbered. It's very rarely I get to see an evenly matched encounter. More planning needs to be made between offical factions for wars to allow them to be equal.

I also play several unlawfuls and yes alot of the time you end up fighting against the odds, the way it should be to be honest and a good test of skill. We need more fighters on!

I launched a couple of days ago to be faced with a major Blood Dragon invasion of 2 Caps and 4 fighters/bombers. Me being me I attacked them in my Raven Claw as a massive Corsair fleet including several caps jumped into NY as well. A massive battle errupted, sadly if it had not been for several lawful independants coming to my aid I would have faced complete and total whorage of 1 fighter. Luckily several more LSF came on and the battle was won as the NovaPG and Corsairs inflicted damage on each other! I have to admit if it wasnt for those independants Liberty was facing being completley overrun, not a good situation.

Attacks should only be made in great numbers if their is a large number of defenders already on. Fleet battles should be more organised. I dont think the Bounty Hunters should have these massive warships in house space. They were built for their war with the Order and defense against the Nomads in their expansion into the Omicrons in search of criminals.

I wish I knew the soulution, ban all independants from Liberty? As if playing an LSF is not enough of a PVP fest at most times we would then have to kick all the other guys out. I dont think we have the resources to kick them all out and I'm sure I dont have the energy :DIt's bad enough with the merc ban, the influx of Xenos, Rogues, Hackers, Corsairs and Outcasts and the defense of Z21. LSF is one overworked faction under almost perpetual attack. I rarely see SA on these days :(Sometimes these independant guys playing Navy/LSF/Police are very appreciated.

Bah to sum up, guys buy fighters!

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=LSF=

[Zapp]

We all know capship whores are 'compensating' for being small in 'other areas'. I think we all know what I mean by 'other areas'. Anyways, I'm used to it. If the man in the big ship is so small that he has to make himself feel better by gloating while he sees my Sabre running, why not let him make himself feel better? He's probably just some fat kid that gets teased at school a lot. No need to make him feel worse here.

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[Stoat]

Ouch, Zapp. Feeling a but vindictive there?

But yeah, get a damn fighter if you want to beat up on a fighter.

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My Stories

[Jinx]

"We all know capship whores are 'compensating' for being small in 'other areas'."

wow - i hope you were kidding, - and again, i can only say that each player is allowed to pilot one capital ship. and it has been said many times before - 2 gunboats can own a battleship - or 3 bombers. when we had the "nerf the bombers" thread, we even had quite some aces claiming they would solo a capital ship in a single bomber.

to be honest - i do like the sight of capital ships. - when i am flying a fighter - i simply ignore them... why? cause a battleship cannot take a fighter down, when the fighter is just evading - on the other hand, i cannot harm the BB alone.. so why bother.

capital ships are extremely weak compared to their price - and amazingly ineffective. i wrote about the LR battleship in manhatten orbit... and a bunch of random fighters was able to take down its shields and scratch its hull quite some.

what you guys want is - scheduled events with balanced forces. - but its not roleplay. shall the attacker now approach with less people than he could spare, cause there are not enough defenders? - or should the defender dock away, cause the attacker comes with a weak force? sounds stupid... but both has been suggested. attackers complaining that the defense they faced was too strong - aswell as defenders complaining that the attackers force is overwhelming.

but imo - that is roleplay.... or simply bad luck when you are on the weaker side.

personally, i found out, that i am much better - and more effective in a fighter than i was in a BHG BC. - but guess what... i figured that out myself - i wouldn t listen to those countless yells and complaints. let the people figure it out themselves - its their freedom of choice. - and still - i have been so glad for capital ship reinforcements when i was on cheshire many times.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Daniel_Feenix]

what you guys want is - scheduled events with balanced forces. - but its not roleplay. shall the attacker now approach with less people than he could spare, cause there are not enough defenders? - or should the defender dock away, cause the attacker comes with a weak force? sounds stupid... but both has been suggested. attackers complaining that the defense they faced was too strong - aswell as defenders complaining that the attackers force is overwhelming.

but imo - that is roleplay.... or simply bad luck when you are on the weaker side.

The thing is; when Planet Manhattan is attacked by capital ships so regularly, the defenders are going to start wondering why they bother playing, it's certainly gotten to that point with my LSF character.

[Jinx]

remember - we had a similar ... situation at new tokyo the other day - fleet of kusari criminals gathered up there - and as far as i remember, the argument was that its rather an incentive to play the KNF defenders. i guess the KNF would have greeted a few more independents flying capital ships there to fight with the villains.

anyway - last time i checked, manhatten was not rediculously camped by people. people are much better spread out recently... i even see quite some activity in bretonia - ( possibly thanks to uog and qco )

you want all independents to leave liberty - make a law like rheinland, that considers everyone hostile, unless innocence is proven. ( sort of - not really, in know )

anyway - i do agree that most capital ships ( both, faction AND independent ) don t really belong to any open core system place - except for large scale and sort of planned attacks. - but i ll include every player in that wish - not only independents .. and not only faction players.

a question to you all - would it be better if we had another set of IDs .... so called "guard <faction>" IDs? - so that you can only fly a capital ( gunboat - BB ) when you have a guard ID? ... but i am sure, quite a lot of faction people would be screwed, too then...
imagine getting your guard to maximum green - happy factioning up. - besides, it won t solve the "problem".


EDIT: allright - i just logged on, launched from manhatten and guess what. the same rogue battleship again - but that time with a hackers outcast dreadnaught. both dock camping. i just made a few chat lines to initiate my role - when i was blown up without a word by the DN. ( so much for roleplay a bit )

result, i get a tell by the dreadnaught "others did it to me - so i do it to others now" ( so - i ll agree, there are too many capital ship captains that have not the slightest idea of roleplay )

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[chopper]

Zapp, i hope you were joking as well.

-You can't judge people for flying Battleships. Why?
Well, there are actually some people who fly nothing but capital ships.
You have one guy in Outcast official faction(s) as well.
Now, is he a capital ship whore? I don't think so. He's a battleship captain.
Just like Warhammer was (example).

-My last statement was there just to say that one man can't possibly be a capital ship whore. One group maybe, but one single character can't.

-Now, ever asked yourself why are there so many independents?
Because they enjoy flying something that is forbidden in official factions.
Every single one of them wants to be a Battleship captain.
And they are no different then Eppy or Whammer, why would they be attacked for such a thing?
Only because they don't have a faction to stay behind it? I don't think so.

-Now, when one group of people decides to buy nothing but capital ships, only to pwn all around, that is capital ship whoring.

As Jinx said, Battleships are irrelevant to Fighter combats.
I once had a battle in Alpha, 6 vipers versus 3 Battleships, 3 Gunboats and 3-4 fighters/bombers.
Battleships did absolutely nothing to stop us.
It was impossible to kill them, yes (even with 6 vipers, because gunboats and fighters were doing a good job in damaging us), but it was very possible to just ignore them.
We lost in the end (expected), but we took all gunboats with us.

My point is. One man can't be called a capship whore.
Group of men can be called cap ship whores.

Bounty Hunter Battleships, BC's and Destroyers belong in Omicrons only.
It is very OORP to see BHG Battleships fulfilling some funny contracts, chasing an LF trough Sirius.

If they are, however, doing a good job, and above all, good RP, in their battleships (like Jinx in her's) then there should be no problems.
Pirates attacking House main planets with a fleet of Capital ships is nonsense.
They would be obliterated in RP.

That's why it makes much more sense for lawful independents to fly capital ships, then unlawfuls.

And what you said is actually pretty much insulting.
Battleships are an important part of RP in this game.
If they were not, they would not exist.

At least i'm not biased, i fly nothing but fighters/bombers. Not even a gunboat.

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del

[mjolnir]

It is a "problem" that happens both ways. LH are capwhored every day... but Manhattan has seen quite a few "sieges" with BS, 2 Destr and a GB in orbit.

60% of new people just trade to get a big ship. The remaining 40% try fighters.. most get pwned by experienced fighters pretty fast. So 90% of them switch to bigger ships.

Only good thing is that when they get bored some of them join official factions.. who do not allow them to fly big ships... so they learn to like fighters.

to be honest - i do like the sight of capital ships. - when i am flying a fighter - i simply ignore them... why? cause a battleship cannot take a fighter down, when the fighter is just evading - on the other hand, i cannot harm the BB alone.. so why bother.

Exactly. I always hope that those cap users find out.. that if a fighter decides not to get killed he will simply not get killed. How much fun is it to fly the capship then? I would have been bored to death.

As an example:
2 days ago this nice fleet came to Magellan:
1 Destroyer + 2GBs.... against 2 fighters. We got 2 more fighters and killed them all... no losses

1 hour later they came back and the fight moved to Leeds. This time it was 1 BS, 2 GB, 1 Bomber 1 Fighter against 4 Fighters and a Bomber. We lost the bomber (to the enemy fighter and bomber) they lost everything except the BS.
So
1 Destr, 4 GBs, Bomber and Fighter lost
vs
1 Bomber

Capshipkills : 0



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side note1:

when we had the "nerf the bombers" thread, we even had quite some aces claiming they would solo a capital ship in a single bomber.

[brag]
GB.. not a big problem (provided you have CDs).
Cruiser... doable but time consuming
BS.... doable but need a few NPCs to help (4 Outcast Sabres in Malta are enough)
[/brag]

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side note2:

BTW, RM, this is in no way a dig at you. I know you guys take pride in being able to hold your own against anything, and wouldn't call in all those caps.

Actually we called in the independent Wrath even before we came in. (he is learning how to roleplay and is willing to listen to us.. so thumbs up). When you came with the Gunship we called in the RM GB (Jaeger). The other ones just joined.

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side note3:

The thing is; when Planet Manhattan is attacked by capital ships so regularly, the defenders are going to start wondering why they bother playing, it's certainly gotten to that point with my LSF character.

Actually the only properly armed bomber (read: with a supernova) defending Manhattan is usually me. LSF has 2 bombers (as far as I know) with Mini Razors. So in every defense of Manhattan the liberty forces just come out with caps... but since they don't come together they usually get destroyed.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Daniel_Feenix]

Actually the only properly armed bomber (read: with a supernova) defending Manhattan is usually me. LSF has 2 bombers (as far as I know) with Mini Razors. So in every defense of Manhattan the liberty forces just come out with caps... but since they don't come together they usually get destroyed.

In those situations; I hadn't known that there's a fleet waiting outside Planet Manhattan, so I've gotten blown up (almost) as soon as I'd undocked and that is what has been frustrating me.